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Should this be a map or 500 maps?

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Re: Should this be a map or 500 maps?

#91
post #23
post #3

I hate overly designed news articles. I want to read the words and maybe see a couple of relevant pictures, thanks. Similarly I suspect most of these different individual maps are just bad. Whimsy and idiosyncrasy are all very well in theory, but in practice they're mostly just annoying.

Well, you've got your wish. Every damned website now looks the same. Whatever creativity the early internet promised has now been snuffed out to appease the user-metrics gods.

I mean, for most of the twentieth centuries books all looked the same. Same handful of typefaces, sizes, margins, etc.

Newspapers also. Same handful of column layouts, typefaces, styling.

It's not about user metrics. It's that what's important is the content of the text itself, alongside whatever photographs and illustrations are necessary and informative.

Websites are no different from the long tradition of books and newspapers in this regard.

There are plenty of spaces for artistic, aesthetic creativity on the internet. No shortage whatsoever. More art than there's ever been before.

There's no need in also trying to shoehorn it into nonfiction articles everywhere.

Re: Should this be a map or 500 maps?

#92
post #10

We had a lively discussion about Google Maps in my cycling group. It's very annoying to have a map that is only designed to show the fastest route, and that forcefully reroutes you to it. It doesn't let you avoid a road or favour another. It does not show named bike routes and hiking trails. It doesn't even let you keep the screen on without having directions. For most people, the entire experience of using a map is…

There's a certain (group of) employees/people in Google maps team which prevent things like this because of their self appointed social justice/we know better ego and they are actually proud of it. https://x.com/kaseyklimes/status/1802431551671603375?s=46

The argument made there isn't about "things like this".

To save everyone a click, here's a summary of that argument: you might want Google Maps to let you ask for the "nicest" rather than the "quickest" route; that would systematically tend to send you through the fancier higher-income parts of town, and in the case of walking directions the effect (which would happen across the entire world) would be to shift foot traffic, and hence e.g. custom for shops, from poorer parts of town to richer parts of town, and that would be bad.

Now, for the avoidance of doubt, I think this is a silly argument for many reasons; here are a few of them. For walking directions through commercial parts of a city, practically everyone is going to choose "quickest" rather than "nicest" and they probably aren't going to stop in the shops along the way; for driving directions, moving traffic from poorer to richer parts is probably a net social-justice improvement; most people asking for "nicer" routes are probably more interested in e.g. avoiding major roads outside cities.

(I do think it's reasonable to ask: what would be the consequences for the world if we offered this feature? and sometimes to conclude that it would make things worse. But I can't say I find it very easy to believe that companies like Google do in fact generally make their decisions on this basis, given what most of those decisions look like.)

But, bad argument or not, and genuinely representative of how Google makes decisions or not, it isn't an argument for not letting people make more specific choices like "avoid this particular road" or "prefer this road when possible", nor for not showing cycle routes and hiking trails, nor for letting you keep the screen on without showing directions. It doesn't have anything to do with any of the things the grandparent comment was complaining that Google Maps doesn't let you do.

I guess it's possible that Kasey in fact argues against all forms of user customization in Google Maps on the grounds that users might customize Maps in ways that are socially harmful. It's even possible that she does so and it makes a difference. But there's nothing in her tweets linked above to suggest that she does, and it doesn't seem plausible to me that considerations like hers have much to do with a broad lack of customizability in Google Maps.

Re: Should this be a map or 500 maps?

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Then buy another phone for up to 4 extra maps. At this point paper maps start looking more useful than digital ones. Google Maps is not a map. It's a half-decent nav system slash ad delivery vector, that pretends to be a map, but sucks at it.

Huh? Google Maps is a map. If you don't use it for directions, then that's entirely what it is. Sure there are a few icons for sponsored businesses, but that's all. They're easy to ignore. The way you can pan and zoom, it's 1000x more useful than any of the road atlases I used to have to keep in my car. Looking up an address is instant rather than taking a couple of minutes on a paper atlas, and it's simple to pan an…

> The way you can pan and zoom, it's 1000x more useful than any of the road atlases I used to have to keep in my car.

Except when it cleverly hides the street names, PoIs and other important labels, as you zoom in. The way Google Maps does it is so absurd that it feels it's done on purpose.

A road atlas is a high-density map. Not the most convenient in paper form, and ripe for digitization, but not in the way Google Maps does it - information density is a feature on a map, when you're trying to orient yourself. It's only a problem when the app is optimized for navigating you to points you already know the address of.

> (And you can put down markers too, and then remove them later. Paper maps you can draw on, but erasing is hard/impossible.)

Sorta, kinda. That's another feature Google is going out of their way to make impossible to use. You can't just put markers (multiple) in the middle of a search or normal scrolling, for example.

Erasing from paper maps is easy - buy laminated ones and use dry-erase markers (or permanent markers and have some alcohol handy).

Re: Should this be a map or 500 maps?

#94
Slightly off topic but when websites disable default touch actions like pinch to zoom it makes for a rough mobile experience, especially when trying to read an article about maps which encourage you to take a close look.

Re: Should this be a map or 500 maps?

#95
post #62

hey this is elan, author of this piece. thanks for sharing and for the discussion for what it’s worth i do agree with the one or two comments here that say that the line “modularity is inversely correlated with expressiveness” is a bit reductive. i did have a long section of caveats but removed them because i felt like they confused the matter more. ironically i’m butting up against the expressive limits of the engli…

I loved the phrase “modularity is inversely correlated with expressiveness.”

I don’t think it’s reductive, just incomplete. It’s missing a third dimension of “complexity.” You can increase expressiveness, but only by adding complexity. But even then, you’re just fractalizing into 500 more maps; the complexity is comprised of layers of modularity, each with its own degree of expressiveness.

For example, you could mimic HTML by giving each map maker some standard components for expressing and classifying buildings and their relationships (“church,” “road,” etc). And sure, now you’ve increased expressiveness. But you’ve also added a new layer of modularity. So you’re right back at where you started. The maxim holds.

Re: Should this be a map or 500 maps?

#96

Surveys come to mind as another scenario where standardization is practical but hides a lot of individuality. For any survey question, asking the participant “why did you choose that answer?” could reveal interesting information. Maybe they interpreted the question in a surprising way?

That's what an UX researcher will do with your NPS questionnaire. The score is bullshit, the "why" answers are the gold.

Re: Should this be a map or 500 maps?

#97
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you've got your wish. Every damned website now looks the same. Whatever creativity the early internet promised has now been snuffed out to appease the user-metrics gods.

I mean, for most of the twentieth centuries books all looked the same. Same handful of typefaces, sizes, margins, etc. Newspapers also. Same handful of column layouts, typefaces, styling. It's not about user metrics. It's that what's important is the content of the text itself, alongside whatever photographs and illustrations are necessary and informative. Websites are no different from the long tradition of books an…

e.e. cummings

Re: Should this be a map or 500 maps?

#98
Interestingly, I have the "opposite" problem. I have many maps that I wish were "one".

I have 7+ mapping apps that I use regularly. Usually I am using several at once and having to swap back and forth to figure out the information I need.

I really wish we had an interoperability protocol that allowed me to combine the data sets locked in each app. I would love to use only one map.

I think there is a strong argument that such a standardized protocol would allow people to currate and combine these datasets in their own way. While in one sense, it would mean there was just "one" map, but in another, there would be a plethora of maps, each tailored to an individual or purpose.

Re: Should this be a map or 500 maps?

#99
I'm reminded of Seeing Like a State by James C. Scott[0], which is in part about just this sort of thing. Maps were one example presented in the book. And it does apply beyond just that too; I read this blog post a while back relating this tendency to social networks: https://technomancy.us/199

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State

Re: Should this be a map or 500 maps?

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Then buy another phone for up to 4 extra maps. At this point paper maps start looking more useful than digital ones. Google Maps is not a map. It's a half-decent nav system slash ad delivery vector, that pretends to be a map, but sucks at it.

Huh? Google Maps is a map. If you don't use it for directions, then that's entirely what it is. Sure there are a few icons for sponsored businesses, but that's all. They're easy to ignore. The way you can pan and zoom, it's 1000x more useful than any of the road atlases I used to have to keep in my car. Looking up an address is instant rather than taking a couple of minutes on a paper atlas, and it's simple to pan an…

> Paper maps you can draw on, but erasing is hard/impossible

I am amused when movies show military situations where commanders draw on huge and otherwise pristine rollout maps. Are they going to be discarded after this one engagement? If not, shouldn't there be scribbles from prior uses?

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