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Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

jogmekeebs.com

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Re: Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

#31

Post by jadyoyster »

smeej wrote: post #25

I've yet to wrap my mind around two things that are extremely common on "ergonomic" keyboards: ortholinear keys, and the positions of the C, X, and Z keys in the columns. I type those with my index, middle, and ring fingers, respectively, because when I pull my fingers back toward my wrists with my hands sitting at a neutral angle, those are the keys they pass. Moving from A to Z on a regular keyboard would be a disa…

I was taught touch typing with pinky on the Z and index on the V for the bottom row. I think that's how it's designed to work, and that in this context stagger is a historical accident that ergonomic keyboards fix.

Re: Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

#32

Post by nickzelei »

weinzierl wrote: post #2

I find it interesting that there was a time when everyone seemed to get overboard with thumb keys and that now things seem to settle at two per hand.

I have the moon lander and have settled to almost never using anything on the thumb cluster. It just didn’t feel very natural to me to have to reach for the thumb. I have larger hands too. I think what I do have mapped is only the first two keys too.

Re: Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

#33

Post by qubyte »

I designed my own for similar reasons, and it's interesting to see a somewhat similar position for the thumb keys. I optimised for hand/wrist position with minimal movement. However, I messed up the column stagger (off by one). Here's the writeup:

https://qubyte.codes/blog/why-did-i-create-a-keyboard

Re: Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

#34

Post by spiderice »

smeej wrote: post #25

I've yet to wrap my mind around two things that are extremely common on "ergonomic" keyboards: ortholinear keys, and the positions of the C, X, and Z keys in the columns. I type those with my index, middle, and ring fingers, respectively, because when I pull my fingers back toward my wrists with my hands sitting at a neutral angle, those are the keys they pass. Moving from A to Z on a regular keyboard would be a disa…

> I type those with my index, middle, and ring fingers

I have never heard of anyone typing like this. I type those keys with my middle, ring, and pinky finger respectively.

A quick google search of “qwerty finger map” shows that middle-ring-pinky seems to be the standard. I don’t see any disagreement across any of the results. I suspect that your typing class was the exception, or you just picked up doing it differently than what was taught. I don’t think there was a large scale “switch” on how things are taught.

But yes, if you type differently than that then ortholinear keys would probably require you to make adjustments.

Re: Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

#35

Post by jogme »

jhardy54 wrote: post #26

Neat! I’m surprised to see no splay, is it just subtle or have you decided against it? The thumbs look comfy and aren’t tucked under the palm, which is my biggest complaint with most keyboards, but I’m using Miryoku (36 key layout) and I’m not sure that I’d know what to do with a 34-key layout. (Miryoku has a kludge to let you press two thumb keys at once to emulate the third, for 34-key keyboards, but that works bes…

Thanks!

Good point for the splay. For some reason I didn't consider it, but looking at it rn I could put a some of the keys in an angle which would feel better. I'll consider it for the next release (or a different version)!

I have nothing against 36 keys layout, the only reason for eliminating 2 thumb keys is that I can't find a proper place for the third thumb key where it would be in a nice position. I could add one key at the inner side, but the thumb just goes below the palm and it is not a comfortable position (for me at least). If you have any suggestions, please let me know! There is always space for improvement.

The lateral pinky position wasn't on the first design, but then someone with a shorter pinky who couldn't comfortably reach the top key tried it and suggested to place it there. I tried it and actually felt a lot better. (to reach the top pinky key I need to make a wrist movement, but not like this). I love it.

Re: Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

#36

Post by donaldihunter »

I have been considering an ergonomic keyboard for a while and came pretty close to getting a sofle [0]. But I realised that I actually like having all the symbol keys. So now thinking about trying a keychron with alice layout [1]

[0] https://josefadamcik.github.io/SofleKeyboard/

[1] https://www.keychron.uk/products/keychron-k15-pro-alice-layo...

Re: Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

#37

Post by jogme »

qubyte wrote: post #33

I designed my own for similar reasons, and it's interesting to see a somewhat similar position for the thumb keys. I optimised for hand/wrist position with minimal movement. However, I messed up the column stagger (off by one). Here's the writeup: https://qubyte.codes/blog/why-did-i-create-a-keyboard

Wow, looks cool!

Interesting to see the thumb key positions are very similar to mine! Can you reach the outermost (outer regarding one half) thumb key without any issues?

Is your hand position like two columns for the middle finger instead of the pointer finger?

Re: Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

#38

Post by jhardy54 »

jogme wrote: post #35
jhardy54 wrote: post #26

Neat! I’m surprised to see no splay, is it just subtle or have you decided against it? The thumbs look comfy and aren’t tucked under the palm, which is my biggest complaint with most keyboards, but I’m using Miryoku (36 key layout) and I’m not sure that I’d know what to do with a 34-key layout. (Miryoku has a kludge to let you press two thumb keys at once to emulate the third, for 34-key keyboards, but that works bes…

Thanks! Good point for the splay. For some reason I didn't consider it, but looking at it rn I could put a some of the keys in an angle which would feel better. I'll consider it for the next release (or a different version)! I have nothing against 36 keys layout, the only reason for eliminating 2 thumb keys is that I can't find a proper place for the third thumb key where it would be in a nice position. I could add o…

Honestly I’ve never tried a 34-key layout, though I’ve seen loads in the keyboard layout DB. Are you using something like Seniply?

Also in case it’s useful: much ink has been spilled about TRRS and its alternatives, but I haven’t found any references to folks using an I2C connector (4-pin JST) instead, which eliminates hotplugging risk without introducing the risks of USB/etc.

I purchased a KB2040 (which has a female I2C connector), a 400mm male-to-male I2C cable, and an I2C GPIO expander, which is slightly cheaper than a second RP2040 on the second hand (though a second KB2040 is cheap anyway). I’m optimistic about using I2C and avoiding TRRS, but wanted to highlight it as an option since I hadn’t seen it mentioned anywhere else.

Re: Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

#39

Post by jogme »

donaldihunter wrote: post #36

I have been considering an ergonomic keyboard for a while and came pretty close to getting a sofle [0]. But I realised that I actually like having all the symbol keys. So now thinking about trying a keychron with alice layout [1] [0] https://josefadamcik.github.io/SofleKeyboard/ [1] https://www.keychron.uk/products/keychron-k15-pro-alice-layo...

Putting a lot of things on layers instead of having them on hardware is not working for anyone so I can totally understand! What symbol keys are you missing from the sofle? I think most of the "missing" symbols are on the thumb keys.

Re: Show HN: I made a split keyboard for large palms

#40

Post by jogme »

jhardy54 wrote: post #28
zamalek wrote: post #10

I'm currently designing a board from actual traces of my finger movements on paper (I was mildly amused when I found that they are not symmetrical, like all human features) in combination with these: https://fkcaps.com/keycaps/hex . It's also my first attempt at using a MCU directly (kinda, MDB50Q). Probably not possible to make a product from my anthropometrics, but I could try average out a few hands.

If you have a large enough touchscreen, I’d also recommend https://pashutk.com/ergopad/ (Note: this breaks down a bit once you move to concave key wells)

This tool is awesome for design! Thanks for sharing it!
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