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The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

kitze.io

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Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#151

Post by ggeorgovassilis »

flappyeagle wrote: post #27
laborcontract wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i’ve recently had a revelatory experience with my cofounder, who is focused entirely on sales. we were pitching our product/services to the company execs- and he just owned the room. He definitely oversold, hallucinated a little bit, said some (many) things i never would have said, but he didn’t lie. I have a highly diminished opinion of my talents than compared to reality and i know it. And i can’t fix it, i’ve trie…

When you watch a great salesperson in action it’s like magic. It’s like watching a chess player find moves you couldn’t have found in a million years. They chose the right words that converted to motions of neurons in your counterparty that caused action by them to give you money. Crazy.

> When you watch a great salesperson in action it’s like magic.

That, a hundred times. It's otherworldly, transcends laws of reality. That's why I dislike most salespeople I met, who don't tire of iterating how important sales are, but never come even close to what a great salesperson can deliver.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#152

Post by evilduck »

achenet wrote: post #127
b112 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers aren't compensated for any extraordinary achievement, though. Unless they own a notable share of the company. So, why should they give everything and get nothing back? How is that fair Get nothing?! What a strange way to view a paycheque. "Hi, you're only paying me, but that's not enough to expect a solid work ethic. Instead, I'll make sure my work is just passable. Want more, and now you have to pay me mo…

that scene from Office Space where he talks about "I do just enough not to get fired" may be relevant here. There is something to be said for 'if you're going to be a rational economic actor and you have a salaried job, the optimal strategy is finish your job's tasks as fast as possible and work on a personal project which you control the upside to with all your extra energy'. From a purely economic point of view, sp…

If you're going to sandbag you should aim for slightly below average. Minimum leaves you no room for error.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#153

Post by throwaway84751 »

fabioborellini wrote: post #111
portaouflop wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience working in this industry is very different and devs do get recognition and sometimes bonuses (if certain goals are hit). Devs are paid a premium, have generally much more relaxed work schedules than managers or any customer facing role. If you screw over your health working in a toxic environment that’s on you IMO - as tech worker you probably have more opportunities to improve your working conditions t…

Maybe that depends on the job market you're working on. In some countries salaries are more affected by personal performance than in others. My first job as a developer made me work around the clock, day and night, for a below average (nationwide compared) salary. And I got yelled at. Since I didn't have enough work experience, my applications weren't responded to. There were no ways to improve conditions without cha…

It sounds like a toxic workplace, but you should do yourself a big favor and try to put that behind you. If you keep that mindset in your new job, your perspective will be negative and you risk burning out.

If you work at a traditional workplace, think of yourself as a professional. Do the best work you can during business hours, without ruining your health. The company is paying you to make decisions that are best for them, and you may not like it but that is what you agreed to. At the same time, they only pay for your work and not your soul. You need to keep a balance between work and you as a person.

Unfortunately there are many toxic workplaces out there, and if I ended up "trapped" with no escape, I would probably consider things differently. But when you finally escape, keep an open mind and try to put your bad experiences behind you.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#154

Post by ggeorgovassilis »

dgb23 wrote: post #145
saulpw wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean handling sales + marketing + accounting and everything else required to run a company is worth 50% (maybe more). But of course while you were probably competent enough to "code it up", odds are he wasn't competent to "run the company".

Administrative work should probably not exceed 10% of the budget, especially in a small company, where the advantage is to have less requirements in that area. Marketing and sales, it depends on what you sell to whom. Let’s say 10-20%. Then there’s a grey area. Obviously there needs to be a feedback loop between clients, development and business. If the business/idea guy facilitates a lot of this and is mostly respon…

I second your analysis, that's how things normally work. It's just that in these and similar scenarios, there isn't much product development happening before the MVP, so the developer fronts all the work and the risk.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#155

Post by js8 »

achenet wrote: post #127
b112 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developers aren't compensated for any extraordinary achievement, though. Unless they own a notable share of the company. So, why should they give everything and get nothing back? How is that fair Get nothing?! What a strange way to view a paycheque. "Hi, you're only paying me, but that's not enough to expect a solid work ethic. Instead, I'll make sure my work is just passable. Want more, and now you have to pay me mo…

that scene from Office Space where he talks about "I do just enough not to get fired" may be relevant here. There is something to be said for 'if you're going to be a rational economic actor and you have a salaried job, the optimal strategy is finish your job's tasks as fast as possible and work on a personal project which you control the upside to with all your extra energy'. From a purely economic point of view, sp…

I call it (doing the bare minimum required) "organizational laziness" and I hate it. It might be rational, but it leads to mediocrity.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#156

Post by ekianjo »

fabioborellini wrote: post #97
vouwfietsman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's worth repeating: Unless you have a stake in the company, it is NOT your job to make sure the company is the most profitable it can be. Your job is to create great software This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit. The thing is though, that p…

> This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit. Developers aren't compensated for any extraordinary achievement, though. Unless they own a notable share of the company. So, why should they give everything and get nothing back? How is that fair? Salespe…

> get roughly the same pay

where?

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#157

Post by ggeorgovassilis »

deadbabe wrote: post #11
ggeorgovassilis wrote: post #6

> so I started getting suspicious if someone actually shared the video of my app with these people because they were solving literally the same problem I once met a guy who had a good idea about an app, something that became fairly mainstream two years later. He asked me to code the app for free and we'd share revenues. When asked what his contribution would be, he offered to "run" the company and otherwise his 50% w…

Not sure if it’s smart to do that if you aren’t entirely sure about what mental state a person could be in. Edit: okay I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted for this but if you think you can just tell someone you’re going to steal their awesome idea in 6 months you better hope their not the type of “crazy” entrepreneur who will cause problems for you or in extreme cases even end up shooting you in the back of the he…

> okay I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted

Because saying "don't do something because an irrational player might irrationally punish you for that" isn't particularly insightful. To expand on your argument, I could find out your real identity (this is hacker news, so I might be a hacker) and pay you a visit (I won't, I'm too lazy & incompetent for that). Just saying that your argument doesn't make sense to me.

> you’re going to steal their awesome idea

I paid for it by listening to a bad sales pitch, that's 40 minutes of my life I'm never getting back. Also, there was no confidentiality or non-compete agreement.

> end up shooting you in the back of the head

Only a semi-related tangent, I live in Europe, people here usually don't carry guns which shifts the entire risk/reward calculation significantly.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#158

Post by ggeorgovassilis »

saulpw wrote: post #15
ggeorgovassilis wrote: post #6

> so I started getting suspicious if someone actually shared the video of my app with these people because they were solving literally the same problem I once met a guy who had a good idea about an app, something that became fairly mainstream two years later. He asked me to code the app for free and we'd share revenues. When asked what his contribution would be, he offered to "run" the company and otherwise his 50% w…

I mean handling sales + marketing + accounting and everything else required to run a company is worth 50% (maybe more). But of course while you were probably competent enough to "code it up", odds are he wasn't competent to "run the company".

> odds are he wasn't competent to "run the company"

A 2 people company where neither gets paid and "product development" consists of me coding the MPV, fronting all the work and the risk.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#159

Post by com »

pantulis wrote: post #141
thekitze wrote: post #69

Author here! I need to update this article. Years later, I actually got motivated by the comments on HN (whenever this gets posted). P People are always like "why don't you just ship your app?" ... so I did! I'm happy I went through with and it's way WAY better than any competitor in this category Check it out at https://benji.so (landing page is still w.i.p)

I just tried it and the detected timezone for me is called: "Africa/Ceuta (Romance Standard Time) (UTC+01:00) Brussels, Copenhagen, Madrid, Paris" While the assigned delta with GMT is correct, this is confusing as hell because neither Brussels, Copenhaguen, Madrid or Paris are in Africa. You may want to take a look at the TZ info you are using. EDIT: See comment below, this is not an issue.

But Africa/Ceuta time aligns with CE(S)T for longstanding national administrative reasons, I believe. That’s why those other cities are listed, since Africa/Ceuta time is not linked by policy, regulation or legislation with any African time zones…

Time is one of those human constructs that isn’t strongly bound to geographic or perhaps even physical reality. Look at the International Date Line or Chinese timezone maps for examples that are “bigger” than Africa/Melila and Africa/Ceuta.

We should all be glad that people are thanklessly doing the hard work to keep the TZ databases updated.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#160

Post by smackeyacky »

freilanzer wrote: post #134
portaouflop wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience working in this industry is very different and devs do get recognition and sometimes bonuses (if certain goals are hit). Devs are paid a premium, have generally much more relaxed work schedules than managers or any customer facing role. If you screw over your health working in a toxic environment that’s on you IMO - as tech worker you probably have more opportunities to improve your working conditions t…

I have never known a software developer who got a bonus. Rarely even recognition.

Merchant banking. I miss those bonuses
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