Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road • Hacker News Board

Re: Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road

#141

Post by Someone » Wed, Jul 03, 2024, 7:17 PM UTC

xcskier56 wrote: post #122

hinkley wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the Track and Field qualifiers for the 2024 Olympics they kept talking about how one of the runners was disqualified from Tokyo because she violated the whereabouts rules. They didn't say how. Is that like parole where they check in, or is it like house arrest where you have an ankle monitor?

It's a bit of both. If you're an athlete being tested at that level, you have to keep your country's antidoping agency informed of your whereabouts at all times. They will randomly send testers to wherever you are and you have a short time window, like 1-3 hours to show up. If you no-show 3 times (I think) it counts as a positive test and you're banned. I really don't know how someone could run in the trials with too…

The athlete may have had a third failed test, but still had time to protest that. There have been examples where athletes filed changes to their schedule, but doping authorities missed those and ended up at the wrong place for a random test, for example.

(Having to file your whereabouts is horrendous, by the way. https://www.wada-ama.org/en/athletes-support-personnel/provi...:

“RTP athletes are required to provide the following whereabouts information on a quarterly basis:

- Home address, email address and phone number

- An address for overnight accommodations

- Regular activities, such as training, work, and school, the locations and the times of these activities

- Competition schedules and locations

- A 60-minute time slot for each day where they’ll be available and accessible for testing and liable for a potential ‘missed test’“

That “60-minute time slot” sounds somewhat reasonable, but (https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/2022-03/At_a_Gl...): “And remember, athlete can be tested anytime and anywhere – not just in their 60-minute time slot!”

Miss a plane? Plane delayed? You may have to inform your doping agency. A loved one suddenly ends up in hospital? Before you rush to go there, report where you’ll be.

Re: Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road

#142

Post by lesuorac » Wed, Jul 03, 2024, 7:18 PM UTC

burningChrome wrote: post #130

deff wrote: post #25

Regarding drugs, yes it´s most likely still happening, but nowhere near the levels it used to be. Riders are tested a lot and have to provide year-round whereabouts for random testing. They also have a frequently updated blood passport to detect sudden changes in values caused by PEDs. It can never be fully waterproof, but at least serious efforts are made.

>> Riders are tested a lot and have to provide year-round whereabouts for random testing. If I remember correctly, these rules were changed after the Armstrong scandal where he would be scheduled for testing, he would say he was at his house in Texas. The testing folks would show up and he just wouldn't answer the door and wait until they left so they couldn't test him. It was one of the ways he was able to dope on a…

> and getting suspended if you cannot be reached for testing.

Hard to believe it took a scandal for that to be a rule.

Re: Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road

#143

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd » Wed, Jul 03, 2024, 7:20 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #105

eloycoto wrote: post #16

Nowadays, some riders use glucose monitoring devices during training with relation to how long it takes from ingesting and getting into blood. They are now measuring more and more things, and food is a crucial role. Glucose monitoring is banned during races, but I guess that is why you don't see some cyclist collapsing like as 15 years ago is because they understand their glucose levels. For sure, doping it's still a…

I haven't been a cyclist since about the time that the market of energy drinks first exploded. And at the time there were a number of articles that said that really all you need is Gatorade, that most of these new drinks were advertising more calories per liter, but Gatorade was already tested out on absorption rates and dialed in to the maximum calories per liter of water that the average human stomach can absorb. T…

There are multiple kinds of carbohydrate and the differences can matter.

Gatorade’s ingredients list shows sucrose (glucose+fructose) and dextrose (glucose).

Maltodextrin is isotonic in a 6x stronger solution than fructose and glucose. This means you need to drink meaningfully less water during a race to digest maltodextrin. So do we want all maltodextrin? Nope! Fructose can be absorbed by a separate pathway, which is less efficient, but increases your total intake of carbohydrates into the bloodstream.

So you’re probably not going to see Tour de France teams giving their riders Gatorade. You want more maltodextrin and less glucose.

Re: Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road

#144

Post by matsemann » Wed, Jul 03, 2024, 7:21 PM UTC

0_____0 wrote: post #120

matsemann wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After my longest ever bike ride, 300 km, I didn't touch a gel for years, heh. Got so sick of 3+ gels per hour for those ~8 hours.

I dropped gels pretty fast. Hard to get if you're not somewhere with sports stores, and expensive. These days I cram haribo and peanut butter M&Ms, although I think the latter are more useful for multiday things.

Yeah, I bought a huge bulk pack online, and then it was okay. But when you need a couple a week it quickly adds up in cost. Same with bars, which I sometimes prefer over gels for longer rides to not just have gels in my stomach. I've tried to bake some bars myself, or make some rice cakes from Velochef ( https://www.rouleur.cc/blogs/desire-journal/velochef-henrik-... ) instead.

Re: Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road

#145

Post by JAlexoid » Wed, Jul 03, 2024, 7:23 PM UTC

ricw wrote: post #113

hinkley wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been a cyclist since about the time that the market of energy drinks first exploded. And at the time there were a number of articles that said that really all you need is Gatorade, that most of these new drinks were advertising more calories per liter, but Gatorade was already tested out on absorption rates and dialed in to the maximum calories per liter of water that the average human stomach can absorb. T…

that is outdated advice. for one, some people sweat more than others, the salt levels in the sweat is totally different too. this means that if you're really serious about sport or are doing endurance races (ie 2 hours+) you should really not just use gatorade, but something where the mix of salt/water is closer to whatever you're sweating. if i personally use gatorade for endurance exercise, i'll just cramp up after…

> that is outdated advice. for one, some people sweat more than others, the salt levels in the sweat is totally different too.

People forget that. They just follow "salt is killing you" advice, meanwhile I sweat salt like it's water. Last race I did had the sense to add salty potato chips to their rest stops... I didn't cramp up.

Meanwhile Gatorade is absolute trash for electrolyte maintenance for someone like myself.

Re: Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road

#146

Post by vgt » Wed, Jul 03, 2024, 7:24 PM UTC

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #143

hinkley wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been a cyclist since about the time that the market of energy drinks first exploded. And at the time there were a number of articles that said that really all you need is Gatorade, that most of these new drinks were advertising more calories per liter, but Gatorade was already tested out on absorption rates and dialed in to the maximum calories per liter of water that the average human stomach can absorb. T…

There are multiple kinds of carbohydrate and the differences can matter. Gatorade’s ingredients list shows sucrose (glucose+fructose) and dextrose (glucose). Maltodextrin is isotonic in a 6x stronger solution than fructose and glucose. This means you need to drink meaningfully less water during a race to digest maltodextrin. So do we want all maltodextrin? Nope! Fructose can be absorbed by a separate pathway, which i…

Powdered sugar is 50/50 fructose and glucose, a close to perfect ratio for absorption. A dash of Gatorade powder for taste and you got yourself a drink that's inexpensive and gets you all the carbs you need.

Re: Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road

#147

Post by ruszki » Wed, Jul 03, 2024, 7:29 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #105

eloycoto wrote: post #16

Nowadays, some riders use glucose monitoring devices during training with relation to how long it takes from ingesting and getting into blood. They are now measuring more and more things, and food is a crucial role. Glucose monitoring is banned during races, but I guess that is why you don't see some cyclist collapsing like as 15 years ago is because they understand their glucose levels. For sure, doping it's still a…

I haven't been a cyclist since about the time that the market of energy drinks first exploded. And at the time there were a number of articles that said that really all you need is Gatorade, that most of these new drinks were advertising more calories per liter, but Gatorade was already tested out on absorption rates and dialed in to the maximum calories per liter of water that the average human stomach can absorb. T…

They count it as gram per hour. If I remember well, pro cyclists can absorb 2-2.5 times as much carbohydrate in an hour than beginners.

Re: Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road

#148

Post by freejazz » Wed, Jul 03, 2024, 7:30 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #117

fuzzylightbulb wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mechanical doping, a problem so wide-spread that only one person at the elite level has ever been found to have been doing it. To date, no one has ever provided hard evidence of another rider using a motor. I am not saying that this doesn't happen at the amateur level (it certainly does) but to imply that this is a pervasive problem in elite cycling is little more than a baseless conspiracy theory until someone shows…

Only one person has been caught. It's been a long time since I bothered to look into this, but LeMond suspected at least half a dozen people, with video evidence of varying degrees of plausibility. The thermal imaging and the fallen rider with the spinning wheels were especially damning. But if you're analyzing old races how do you get a conviction? You can't.

> with the spinning wheels were especially damning

No it wasn't. Wheels spin through crashes all the time.

Re: Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road

#149

Post by freejazz » Wed, Jul 03, 2024, 7:34 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #112

deff wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impossible to use mechanical doping now with the current inspections. Has it been used before these inspections were implemented? Very likely. An hungarian engineer developed a motor with spools in the rims and the stator in the forks. For sure at some point this offered a better risk/reward than PEDs.

Greg LeMond was one of the people calling for more scrutiny of bikes for mechanical tampering. One of the best pieces of evidence he provided were thermal cameras pointed at bikes while they were in motion. Lots of thermal blooming in places no professional bike mechanic generate a tenths that much friction. One of the problems is that bikes can be made so light with unobtainium that there are rules in place requirin…

Weight minimum has nothing to do with teams being poor, it has to do with having a safety minimum.

Re: Tour de France: How professional cycling teams eat and cook on the road

#150

Post by freejazz » Wed, Jul 03, 2024, 7:39 PM UTC

bell-cot wrote: post #88

wasmitnetzen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A UCI WorldTeam has a budget of about 10 to 60 million euros. That's peanuts in a lot of other sports.

If that budget is for an 8-man team, in a sport with a 3 1/2-week season... An (American) NFL team has 53 "active" players (plus a practice squad, plus ...), and plays a 5-month season. And has a lot of "maintain a major stadium"-type expenses, which (my guess) cycling teams don't have. Based on your figures, and trying to scale... no , the cycling team budgets really aren't peanuts by comparison. NFL Data: https://s…

>If that budget is for an 8-man team, in a sport with a 3 1/2-week season...

The tour de france is 3 1/2 weeks, the cycling season is much longer.