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Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

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Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#41

Post by WildUtah »

js2 wrote: post #38
eykanal wrote: post #32

I can't read the embedded Scribd document (scribd is blocked here)... what term does Motorola claim has a "plain and ordinary meaning"?

The quote is from an earlier ruling, not from the PDF. The full quote is: "Motorola is hereby ordered to propose a claim construction of the term 'predetermined number of channel resources' in patent '898 at tomorrow's Markman hearing. Motorola's contention that the term has a 'plain and ordinary meaning' is ridiculous; Motorola seems to have forgotten that this is a jury trial. The term 'predetermined' means 'determ…

Downvoted for referencing fosspatents. You wouldn't cite an Aryan Nations site on human genetics, even if they were quoting facts. Likewise FM on IP.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#42

Post by neilk »

ecocentrik wrote: post #36

I'm glad Posner and a few other justices seem to have an interest in discrediting frivolous patent cases but can they do anything other than point a dirty finger at corporations for abusing the patent system and dismiss their cases with prejudice? Posner can't shift around his appointments indefinitely. It's obvious that most HNers feel the patent system won't change any time soon or they wouldn't be filling this thr…

Exactly what do you want him to do? He could not be a judge and also be an activist.

Speaking this clearly from the bench - a position of impartial authority - is probably the best he can do.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#44

Post by js2 »

WildUtah wrote: post #41
js2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote is from an earlier ruling, not from the PDF. The full quote is: "Motorola is hereby ordered to propose a claim construction of the term 'predetermined number of channel resources' in patent '898 at tomorrow's Markman hearing. Motorola's contention that the term has a 'plain and ordinary meaning' is ridiculous; Motorola seems to have forgotten that this is a jury trial. The term 'predetermined' means 'determ…

Downvoted for referencing fosspatents. You wouldn't cite an Aryan Nations site on human genetics, even if they were quoting facts. Likewise FM on IP.

I invite you to find the original source for the quote, and I'll change the link.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#45

Post by Sniffnoy »

lmarinho wrote: post #39
Aethaeryn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A zero-length line segment is a point. The Wikipedia definition of a line segment says that it is bound by two endpoints.[1] It provides a reference to Planet Math that goes into specifics.[2] In this page, it is made clear that the two endpoints cannot be equal. Planet Math provides an equation for a closed[3] line segment: L = {a + tb | t in [0, 1]} This means that a line segment can be expressed as all of the po…

I'd also refer to Hilbert's Axioms[1], which are the basis for the modern treatment of Euclidean Geometry. [1] http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17384/17384-pdf.pdf

No, the basis for the modern treatment of Euclidean geometry is the explicit construction of the plane as R^2. Axiomatization is reserved for things like set theory and elementary number theory. Although Hilbert's axioms aren't exactly even a proper axiomatization anyway, seeing as it's a second-order axiomatization, and thus requires some ambient set theory. But if you've got set theory, you may as well construct it. You could think of the axioms as just conditions, of course, but then you need an existence proof, which is provided by the explicit construction as R^2, so...

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#46

Post by [deleted] »

lmarinho wrote: post #39
Aethaeryn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A zero-length line segment is a point. The Wikipedia definition of a line segment says that it is bound by two endpoints.[1] It provides a reference to Planet Math that goes into specifics.[2] In this page, it is made clear that the two endpoints cannot be equal. Planet Math provides an equation for a closed[3] line segment: L = {a + tb | t in [0, 1]} This means that a line segment can be expressed as all of the po…

I'd also refer to Hilbert's Axioms[1], which are the basis for the modern treatment of Euclidean Geometry. [1] http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17384/17384-pdf.pdf

[deleted]

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#47

Post by AJ007 »

pg wrote: post #40

What a wonderful surprise. I'd forgotten about the judicial branch, and now they appear like the cavalry to sort out this mess. Wouldn't it be great if they went after the patent trolls next?

If it was not for the judicial branch, the internet would, as we know it today, would not exist.

Remember such detestations as the Child Online Protection Act? Which, after being struck down, and the Supreme Court agreeing with the ruling, a John Ashcroft led Department of Justice continued to use tax payer money to push back through the courts?

I suspect that the differences between functional and dysfunctional governments, elected or not, lie largely in their legal and court systems.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#48

Post by _delirium »

neilk wrote: post #43

What does it mean that Posner was assigned to a lower court? Should we assume that he requested a chance to rule on this matter? Or is the entire judicial branch disgusted with the patent system too, and they asked for a pinch-hitter?

The chief judge of a circuit can assign a circuit judge to hear a district-court case, if they deem it to be in the public interest. (I don't know anything about how often this is used, or what the reasons typically are, though.)

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#49

Post by jsprinkles »

mikek wrote: post #7

> [re a slide-to-unlock patent] Apple’s .. argument is that “a tap is a zero-length swipe.” That’s silly. It’s like saying that a point is a zero-length line. But a point is a zero-length line.

I'm beyond disappointed that the article is about the most important ruling regarding patent law in recent memory, and the overwhelming majority of this thread is arguing about the geometry cited in the judge's order. Rational people understood what he meant, even if maybe it's not 100% mathematically sound.

This pedantry really frustrates me, and it extends beyond Hacker News. It's pervasive in conversations I've been having recently as well, as if we're all looking for the slightest thing wrong with what someone has said so that we can achieve some kind of acclaim by pointing it out. I made a point recently about how people need to work together and cited a Star Trek film as a joke, and some jackass in the group decided to go to the mat with me on the fact that I had cited the wrong Star Trek film (my quote was in III, not II).

There is nothing more frustrating than a pedant. It seems like it's tech people that do it most, too, which makes sense, but still.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#50

Post by jsprinkles »

pg wrote: post #40

What a wonderful surprise. I'd forgotten about the judicial branch, and now they appear like the cavalry to sort out this mess. Wouldn't it be great if they went after the patent trolls next?

It's unfortunate that it's easy to forget the judicial branch (I do too). It's tough to perceive their actions as governing in the same way that Congress governs, but it is in fact the case. It's also great when it's used effectively.
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