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Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

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Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#801

Post by Detrytus »

hifromwork wrote: post #321
Detrytus wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acorn was a British company, not European, and had significant help from Apple since 1980s. Nokia never really had any significant share of smartphone market once it took of. Nokia and Ericsson telecom infrastructure is inferior to Huawei's. I will give you Bluetooth and Spotify, but that's just a drop in a bucket.

>Acorn was a British company, not European Last I've checked UK was firmly in Europe. I assume you meant something different, because literal interpretation makes no sense to me. Can you clarify?

Sorry, I meant it more like UK is in many regards more similar to the US, than to the rest of Europe. I mean stuff like common law vs civil law, the way you start/grow your business, access to financing, etc.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#802

Post by boxed »

an-allen wrote: post #510
boxed wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was confusing to read. Are you pro-monopoly? That's the only way I can read this...

I’m pro features that make sense for digital workers and Teams is just a set of features that make sense. My comment is more about how ineffective this type of rent seeking has been against Microsoft for the last 3 decades.

It "makes sense" only after Slack made it make sense.

I agree that the regulation has been incompetent. That's a different matter though. In this case, the reaction was way too slow. The war is already over and now they start to move troops.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#803

Post by USiBqidmOOkAqRb »

nextos wrote: post #441
farhadhf wrote: post #405

This essentially killed my (EU-based) startup in the project management and collaborate space. Before MSFT bundled Teams with O365 we were rapidly growing and closing enterprise customers in the automotive, energy and education industries with high retention rates. Right around the time the Teams bundling started our retention dropped, churn went through the roof, growth slowed down, we failed to raise our next round…

Last time I checked, they also arbitrarily excluded Firefox, which works fine on other WebRTC platforms such as Google Hangouts or Zoom. Furthermore, I have always needed a Microsoft account to join a Teams meeting, as they want to make sure you get sucked into their ecosystem. Aside from that, resource consumption on Chromium is totally crazy. Zoom or Hangouts are fine, but Teams makes my old NUC overheat during sim…

It is (was?) much worse than that. Last time I was forced to attend a Teams meeting roughly a year ago I used Firefox. The UI greeted me with two grayed out toggles informing that neither video nor microphone are usable. Out of morbid curiosity I enabled the responsive tester mode which, amongst other things, allows you to temporarily set the user agent string. I looked up one for Edge, grabbed the first I could find, reloaded the page, and... it worked. Joined the call with full features.

You can not convince me Microsoft isn't an evil company.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#804

Post by lrem »

miki123211 wrote: post #652
lrem wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, Apple is way more forceful than that. I keep finding myself in the situation where I pause YouTube on my headphones, speak for a while with someone, click to unpause and instead of resuming on YouTube that starts Apple Music playing the same U2 album. I'm still refusing to set that damn thing up, much less have it be the default recipient of the play button.

To be fair, this is mostly due to Youtube and their very strict "no video playback when the app isn't open" policies. If you were using any other app, anything from Spotify to really niche audiobook apps, you wouldn't have that problem.

I’m paying for this and use YouTube almost exclusively when the app isn’t open.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#805

Post by lrem »

wila wrote: post #662
lrem wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, Apple is way more forceful than that. I keep finding myself in the situation where I pause YouTube on my headphones, speak for a while with someone, click to unpause and instead of resuming on YouTube that starts Apple Music playing the same U2 album. I'm still refusing to set that damn thing up, much less have it be the default recipient of the play button.

macOS I assume? I use a little app called noTunes (it's on github) to prevent that from happening. edit: should be this one: https://github.com/tombonez/noTunes

iPhone

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#806

Post by hx8 »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #519
hx8 wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ask about the tools I will be using during the interview process. There are several that I refuse to work with and will end the interview at the next possible polite point if they are required. Microsoft Windows is on my blacklist. The entire point of private retirement accounts and transferable skills is that you aren't required to stick with one employer. If your employer requires you to use bad tools then find a…

>then find a better employer What a clueless and entitled point of view. Entire industries are almost exclusively Microsoft (basically all those that make the modern civilized world work: medical, transportation, semiconductor, logistics, automotive, industrial, architecture, infrastructure, CAD, etc). Your choice then is unemployment. Not everyone is an app/web developer who can freely choose employers based on stac…

Parent comment here, chiming in days after this thread.

My primary purpose in making my comment was to help employees that feel stuck using bad tools. I hope my advice helps to encourage people to look for better opportunities, and to consider the software they will be using in those opportunities. I have given dozens of technical interviews, and no one has ever asked me "what is your development setup like?" as part of the interview. I wanted to share with other people my little trick.

Maybe my comment smells of privilege, but this is a privilege anyone can claim. After all, all tech workers have transferable skills and access to private retirement accounts.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#807

Post by znpy »

Wytwwww wrote: post #649
znpy wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This move by the EU is good, but too little too late You should be thankful at all this is happening. On the other side of the ocean bundling office and teams is still perfectly legal. I wonder why nobody at the US antitrust office has said anything at all.

> On the other side of the ocean bundling office and teams So is bundling office and PowerPoint which killed a massive number of presentation apps before they were even born. How is this particularly different? Should bundling any apps/sofware/services together be illegal? Should that only apply to specific companies?

> Should bundling any apps/sofware/services together be illegal?

Yes, it's an abuse of dominant position in the market.

> Should that only apply to specific companies?

It should apply to any market segment where one vendor can abuse its position.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#808

Post by alphabeta2024 »

genewitch wrote: post #347
jhallenworld wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rant on: I use it in-browser on Linux also: Microsoft's security system is horrendous. I have to log into Teams-based client meetings using incognito browser windows because Teams keeps getting into mystery login loops with regular windows. It was working for a while, but I needed to log into Intel for Altera FPGA information. Well Intel uses Microsoft Azure for identity management (I had to log into Microsoft to log…

The state of louisiana has a similar issue with their domain servers - if you have an errant client somewhere, anywhere, that has the wrong password (or whatever their IDS thought was 'fishy',) you get locked out of your desktop in the office. for two years my wife had to call State I.T. every morning to get logged in. Her office locked so no need to log out until quittin time. i was never able to track down what dev…

That's fucking crazy.
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