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A WFH 'culture war' has broken out across Europe

fortune.com

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Re: A WFH 'culture war' has broken out across Europe

#31

Post by benterix »

> Mortensen, though, isn’t convinced. “It drives me crazy when people using [pandemic era] data and saying, well it worked during COVID, which was a giant existential dread and people didn’t have any other option….the company not falling apart in two years doesn’t mean that remote working is the best way you can organize.”

Instead of disputing that, I'll just reply: "It might not be the best way for you, but it's definitely the best way for me, so I'll pick only those companies that offer remote roles, and I'll do my best working for them because I appreciate WFH much more than money". Incidentally, in my niche top-paid roles are remote only.

Re: A WFH 'culture war' has broken out across Europe

#33

Post by Jtsummers »

mcv wrote: post #29
josefritzishere wrote: post #15

WFH is the best thing since sliced bread.

I didn't believe in it before the lockdowns, but WFH has really improved my productivity. The only downside is that there's no clear moment to stop working. It's tempting to check later in the evening whether a build or test succeeded or kick off a new job.

Have a separate work space from your hobby stuffs (if your hobbies involve computers) or separate computers. Never connect your work accounts to your personal devices. When I had a full-time WFH job, I'd disconnect the office laptop and put it aside at the end of day. No temptation to look at it again, then I'd go row for 30 minutes and run and if I went back to the desk the only option was my own computer. Current work is hybrid, we have lab work so full-time remote is not an option, and this still works for me though the exercise is now cycling.

Re: A WFH 'culture war' has broken out across Europe

#35

Post by bookaway »

josefritzishere wrote: post #15

WFH is the best thing since sliced bread.

This is purely anecdotal but has anyone else noticed it is quite rare to see a job posting based in Amsterdam that accepts fully remote employees. My guess is the Dutch government is providing some strong incentives to companies to prevent the proliferation of fully remote jobs.

I might be completely off base here, but they seem to be providing some incentives that exceed the incentives that cities in the States provide companies since the US hasn't been able to stop the trend entirely.

Or is it something in the Dutch culture that finds remote work off-putting?

Re: A WFH 'culture war' has broken out across Europe

#36

Post by thefz »

As an introvert I have, like any other introvert, been forced to work the extrovert way because that was the norm. Now the wind has changed and you hear extroverts crying that they can't work without the social connection and they miss the cooler chat.

Good. We have been forced to do things your way until now. Now times have changed. You do things our way. Take your ten minute talk about kid soccer elsewhere and let me work.

Re: A WFH 'culture war' has broken out across Europe

#37

Post by kkfx »

benterix wrote: post #24
jayd16 wrote: post #13

I miss when WFH wasn't a religious war and was just about whether you could deliver enough that no one missed you so you wouldn't get called out for slacking. Now if it's a war in the office, managers need to pick a side and the freedom is reduced even if you get some WFH days or whatever. Full remote is a whole other can of worms.

WFH is not a "religious" war. For many people it's definitely a huge battle but for workers' rights, the same we had to do for the 8-hour day 100 years ago. When people realized they don't have to be packed like animals every day in order to do their work, they revolted. So yes, it is a full-scale war, but has nothing to do with religion or some dogmas, just realizing the absurdity of the pre-pandemic situation (espe…

The war actually is not much about being packed in the office, but being packed in dense cities to be nearby the office, that's the real point IMVHO of the RTO push: if all jobs doable from remote get done from home people doing them will spread and as a results services will spread as well creating a new-old-distributed economy, witch is a very good economy for the people, for SME, ... but not for big players.

If you live on mountains you do not use Uber for trips, you do not buy ready made food via Just Eat and so on. Big of real estate discovering that no one want big glass coated, hyper energivore towers but nice homes and homes are private business there is no much slack to bribe the public and craft big money affairs, in the end spread people OWN something so the 2030 "you'll own nothing" agenda fails. The rent-all, all is a service model fails.

Those who really want the RTO do not care at all about the office, but the surrounding. If people realize that things will change faster.

Re: A WFH 'culture war' has broken out across Europe

#38

Post by kkfx »

jagger27 wrote: post #28

It's probably time for HN mods to start nuking these WFH threads.

Why?

Most comments tend to be partisan on one side or another, but some are still insightful and help other reasoning. Some publish studies about specific aspects of various working models, collected data on various experience, they are good to reason as well.

The signal/noise ratio is also good as well, because show the current level of social polarization/fracture and help to understand the reasons behind.

Re: A WFH 'culture war' has broken out across Europe

#39

Post by kkfx »

silverquiet wrote: post #14
adamnemecek wrote: post #2

I don’t think that this is a war that employers can win. Employees got a taste of freedom, and it’s hard to go back.

Speaking as an employee, I like the taste of a paycheck more - I guess I'm weak that way.

If you'll own nothing in 2030 the taste of your paycheck will be just hypocrisies though...

Freedom means risks, hard situations, hazards, but also opportunity and being able to walk on their own feet instead of being at the mercy of someone else. One reasons our society implode is that so many have traded short-time benefits other long times goals and as a results we are all LESS stable than before.

Re: A WFH 'culture war' has broken out across Europe

#40

Post by pentaphobe »

The individualism correlation with higher remote work is an interesting (weird/suss) one.

During peak pandemic there were parallels drawn between areas of high individualism and higher chance of ignoring quarantine, lockdown, and masking laws (or guidelines).

This makes logical sense to me: "rules for thee and rules for me" is a very individualist way of looking at things.

Meanwhile all the people I know who are more interested in remote work also happen to have been way above average when it comes to following guidelines and (this is an important distinction) not solely for their own wellbeing (ALA collectivism).

Anyway - personal observation only, but seems really off to me. Perhaps on average it's still correct and I'm in a fringe bubble!

---

Other commenters' mention of introvert vs. Extrovert sparked something:

To each type, the others' behaviour can seem selfish (perhaps even to the point of seeming like they're hyper-individualists with no care for the greater good)

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