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Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

makojs.dev

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Re: Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

#91

Post by rty32 »

norman784 wrote: post #35
ecmascript wrote: post #21

Can't people figure out some other tooling besides bundlers? I mean, how many do we really need? It's probably fine, but so are all the others as well. The authors have probably spent a fair amount on time on this project so I don't want to be negative but it's just hard to be excited when it brings nothing new to the table. Why should I use this over Vite or esbuild? Because it's written in Rust? I don't understand…

Why matters that is written in Rust? Because there are already a few JS tools written in Rust, so you can now use the crates from projects like Deno[0], OXC[1], BiomeJS[2], etc to write your own tool with minimal effort. Also note that the Vite team is writing Rolldown[3], and guest what? They are writing it in Rust. [0] https://crates.io/search?q=deno [1] https://crates.io/search?q=oxc [2] https://crates.io/search?q…

None of those tools you quoted are production ready based on my investigation, in the sense that if you manage the JS infrastructure of a company of 2000 developers, you would stick with webpack. Lots of Rust based tooling is still half baked and missing things here and there, so much that you wish these people work together to create one (or at most two) tool that is comparable to webpack.

Re: Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

#92

Post by dartos »

bovermyer wrote: post #82
brabel wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with Java? If so, a web bundler is like a build tool which creates a single fat jar from all your source code and dependencies, so all you have to "deploy" is a single file... except the fat jar is just a (usually minified) js file (and sometimes other resources like a css output file that is the "bundled" version of multiple input CSS files, and other formats that "compile" to CSS, like SCSS [1] whi…

I'll admit to being a little outdated on front-end design evolution. Sass/SCSS is no longer needed? Does CSS support nested blocks now?

Very recent addition, but yes!

At long last

Re: Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

#93

Post by samaltmanfried »

meiraleal wrote: post #76
samaltmanfried wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation with the tooling constantly changing isn't nearly as bad as the front-end frameworks themselves. I've been updating my knowledge of front-end, and it's an absolute shambles. The official React documentation( https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project ) is telling me that in order to use their framework, I need to use another framework to solve (quote)"common problems such as code-splitting, routi…

Nextjs is the trojan horse sent to destroy React and it worked

Is this how other people feel about NextJS? I've been trying to keep an open mind about it, but its entire design seems so antithetical to what I'm trying to accomplish. Is there a better mainstream alternative? From what I've seen NextJS is pretty commonly used.

Re: Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

#94

Post by dpoljak »

rty32 wrote: post #88

Every bundler these days boasts "Rust" and "fast". What people really want is webpack feature parity. For a large enough organization with complex use cases and resource management, I yet need to see a real webpack equivalent. (Meanwhile, swc parser can't yet pass all tests in test262 according to their website: https://docs.rs/swc_ecma_parser/latest/swc_ecma_parser/ )

Isn't rspack[0] trying to handle full feature parity? I've just come across it earlier today so I'm not an expert but I'm looking forward to the full 1.0 release

[0] https://www.rspack.dev/

Re: Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

#95

Post by aaaaaaabbbbbb »

tinco wrote: post #68
dluan wrote: post #29

What happens when we reach the tip of bundling? Once you're in ms territory (like esbuild is), then what are the really creative things you can do if say every browser had a little WASM mako or some bundler in it? It's very cool though and seems like a lot of effort went into this.

It's in the ms for a small projects. These improvements are not to shave a couple ms off some small codebase, but would shave seconds off of really large projects. The codebase I'm working on right now isn't really large, about 5 years of development with on average 2-3 developers working on it and in vite (esbuild) the build time is 20.78 seconds on my M1 MBP. This project claims to be twice as fast as vite, so it w…

Note that while Vite transpiles with esbuild, it bundles with Rollup, which is single-threaded JS.

Vite also uses esbuild to prebundle dependencies for the dev server, but this is separate from production builds.

Re: Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

#96

Post by flohofwoe »

throwAGIway wrote: post #83
flohofwoe wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bundling is the equivalent of static linking, typically combined with dead code elimination (which is called "tree shaking" in the web world) plus optionally other optimizations and code transformations.

Dead code elimination is related to but distinct from tree shaking - it also means that unused code branches get removed, for example constants like NODE_ENV get replaced with a static value, and if you have a static condition that always results to true, the else branch is removed.

In my book that's all covered by the term 'dead code elimination', e.g. removing (or not including in the first place) any code that can be statically proven to be unreachable at runtime. Some JS minifiers (like Google's Closure) can do the same thing in Javascript on the AST level (AFAIK Closure essentially breaks the input code down into an AST, then does static control flow analysis on the AST, removes any unreachable parts, and finally compiles the AST back into minified Javascript). Tree-shaking without this static control flow analysis doesn't make much sense IMHO since it wouldn't be able to remove things like a dynamic import inside an if that always resolves to true or false.

Re: Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

#97

Post by aaaaaaabbbbbb »

samaltmanfried wrote: post #26
berkes wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that people keep releasing new bundlers, minifiers, transpilers, package managers and so on, for JavaScript is a loud and clear warning that something is amiss. People (re)write such tools either for fun or to solve a problem (or best: both). Apparently after so much re-writes the problems haven't been solved. To me, this indicates fundamental problems. I'm not familiar enough with the ecosystem to know what…

The situation with the tooling constantly changing isn't nearly as bad as the front-end frameworks themselves. I've been updating my knowledge of front-end, and it's an absolute shambles. The official React documentation( https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project ) is telling me that in order to use their framework, I need to use another framework to solve (quote)"common problems such as code-splitting, routi…

Next.js et al. provides a set of opinionated packages designed to enable a specific paradigm. For Next.js, that's server-side rendering. For Remix, that's progressive enhancement.

If you are happy with client-side rendering and do not desire React on the server, there is not a strong reason to use Next.js; it introduces complexity and churn.

Re: Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

#98

Post by cpburns2009 »

wellyeahkinda wrote: post #54
rossant wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Mako

There is no way this isn't the thing they're both referencing.

Mako templates uses a shark, presumably a mako shark, in its logo. I doubt it's referring to the mako, magic light, of FF7.

Re: Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

#99

Post by alex_suzuki »

brabel wrote: post #71
benrutter wrote: post #60

I don't work in web, and possibly live under a rock. I'm a little confused around what bundlers actually do? I'd sort of assumed it was a typescript build thing before, but Mako's page gives me enough info to make me realise I'm wrong, but seems to assume people are working with some base knowledge I don't have. Any pointers to information of exactly what bundlers do? The emphasis on speed makes it sound like it's do…

Are you familiar with Java? If so, a web bundler is like a build tool which creates a single fat jar from all your source code and dependencies, so all you have to "deploy" is a single file... except the fat jar is just a (usually minified) js file (and sometimes other resources like a css output file that is the "bundled" version of multiple input CSS files, and other formats that "compile" to CSS, like SCSS [1] whi…

I already knew what bundlers do, but I’ll just say thank you anyway for writing such an approachable explanation. I might refer to it in the future when someone asks ME what a bundler does :-)

Re: Mako – fast, production-grade web bundler based on Rust

#100

Post by crabmusket »

spankalee wrote: post #4

This supports all kinds of non-platform-standard features that may tie your project to this specific bundler, but will tie them to bundlers in general. It would be much better to have projects that work without bundlers, that can use them as an optimization step.

Imagine if you could just scp your source code tree onto a CDN and it would automatically bundle it based on how clients import it.
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