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Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

#681
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post #4

>The court on a 5-4 vote ruled that the bankruptcy court did not have the authority to release the Sackler family members from legal claims made by opioid victims. As part of the deal, the family, which controlled the company, had agreed to pay $6 billion that could be used to settle opioid-related claims, but only in return for a complete release from any liability in future cases. Is this actually a positive outcom…

Positive outcome. They earned hundreds of billions from their actions which resulted in the deaths of thousands. Giving them permanent immunity was insane.

The settlement was really a bit insane to me - we’re giving immunity to a family that killed hundreds of thousands and destroyed who knows how many more, and the money is being paid to local governments. In my area they planned on spending their share on things like “outreach” and free-to-the-addict narcan so they could continue to run around causing local mayhem.

Speaking as a man with a deceased father and aunt as a result of the Sacklers, really it’s a spit in the face kind of outcome that was shot down. They ought to be locked up next to El Chapo in ADX Florence.

Re: Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

#682
post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

np, > Follow-up Q for you. What is the realistic way to prescribe opioids routinely and safely? The simple answer is "less and with better monitoring". The first half of that was the equilibrium that Purdue intentionally shifted in the medical establishment. The cascading effects of that are what caused the modern day opioid crisis. Unfortunately, the modern-day opioid crisis as I understand it is mostly no longer re…

> Take-home fentanyl is probably unnecessary Nah, a friend and colleague needed fentanyl lollipops at one point. You'd be at lunch and he's like "Oh I can't eat food, they had to remove my entire stomach" sucking on the lollipop, and he'd calmly explain that you mustn't touch his weird lollipop because while he can suck on it for a normal person the dose from doing so would be fatal, he'd just used so many strong pai…

I don't know if it is genetic, a side effect of chronic or acute pain, or just plain luck but I've seen family wind up not addicted at all despite heavier doses. If it is genetic it might be linked to not finding painkillers enjoyable at all.

I know from my wisdom teeth removal getting a few days of oxycontin while it helped with the pain it mostly made me feel weak not only while taking it but for about a week or so after discontinuing it. And this is from someone with a low pain tolerance.

Re: Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

#683
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a positively wonderful way to look at life.

I can't make sense of this either as sarcastic or earnest. I though GP was a fairly neutral (and imho accurate) appraisal.

I think it’s accurate but it’s bleak imho

Re: Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

#684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! Opioids increase suffering and ruin the quality of life for hundreds of thousands of Americans. 80k+ yearly overdose deaths, plus a percentage of those using opioids for recovery become addicted to it. Is that a worthy tradeoff? I presume (could be wrong) but we did fine recovering with surgical operations 80 years ago without opioids.

Morphine was commonly administered for post-surgical pain 100 years ago: "The after-treatment of surgical patients, by Willard Bartlett and collaborators." (1925) https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015071056918&se... One of the first complaints made by the postoperative patient on returning to consciousness is pain. This if due to the actual operative procedure should be at once relieved. William J. Mayo ta…

24 hours post operation is fine. But giving them for weeks after an operation seems unnecessary. I've also heard that oxycontin in the USA is given to pregnant women to deal with pain.

Re: Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

#685
I recently watched these 3 episodes of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver. Highly recommended.

Opioids III: The Sacklers: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaCaIhfETsM)

Opioids II: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qCKR6wy94U)

Opioids: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pdPrQFjo2o)

Re: Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

#686
post #606
post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nicotine is what makes it addictive , but everything else makes it deadly . This distinction is well known here in Sweden where we have snus, and also lower rates of lung cancer and cigarette use than the rest of Europe by a LOT.

Though at the same time I would wager a larger rate of gum disease and mouth cancer than the rest of Europe by a lot.

Not cancer. Because it's, again, not the nicotine that causes the cancer. Snus does NOT increase cancer risk.

It decreases cavities by a lot (presumably because the bacteria doesn't like the environment anymore), but also destroys your gums. All in all, depending on your dosage it could be a wash or even positive for your oral health.

It's absolutely disgusting, but it's not dangerous :P

Re: Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

#687
post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nicotine is what makes it addictive , but everything else makes it deadly . This distinction is well known here in Sweden where we have snus, and also lower rates of lung cancer and cigarette use than the rest of Europe by a LOT.

That is not true. It is the interaction of nicotine with various monoamine oxidase inhibitors that makes tobacco smoking addictive, to an extent that it could be stated that it is the MAOIs entirely causing the addictive behaviour: the exact same MAOIs are also found in coffee, after all. Why are nicotine pouches and vapes addictive, then? The answer lies in the flavourings, which themselves have psychoactive propert…

You will have to supply something to back up such a wild statement. Nicotine has been shown to be extremely addictive all the way from humans down to single neurons in a petri dish, for decades.

Re: Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

#688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't have to. Virtually none. People die from the street heroin they bought as a substitute for the oxy they couldn't get once the DEA cracked down. You can see it on every fucking graph, the very week that the DEA did this, if the dates have enough resolution. This is why we don't ask "the families of the victims", because you're irrational with grief and can't process what the problem is.

In America, if I shot you in the leg and you died years later from an infection incurred because of that bullet wound I can and likely would be charged with murder because of the long string of consequence caused by my action. So I can draw a pretty solid causal line from “my father died in a tent in the woods behind a gas station off of I-95 to the Oxy he was once on.” Maybe the pill itself didn’t directly kill him…

> if I shot you in the leg and you died years later from an infection incurred because of that bullet wound I can and likely would be charged with murder because of the long string of consequence caused by my action.

Which is a useful convention, because it deters the sort of violence as "shooting people in legs".

The analogy doesn't hold. Drug warriors like yourself murdered the OD junkies. Your policy murders, and somehow you perceive yourself as the overburdened heroes. Prohibition is a bizarre policy, and we don't prosecute beer brewers for drunk driving deaths, no matter how addicted the alcoholic was. You're a bad person. You make the world more miserable than it has to be with nothing more than your evil opinions. And nothing I can say will ever convince you of the truth.

> Perhaps I’m just too emotional here, having literally dealt with the above last month.

You're not just emotional, but irrational. I and others like me could fix the things that make you hurt, but you want more of the same. It is not the sadist who screams "the beatings will continue", it is masochists like yourself who beg for it, telling all involved their morale really will improve.

Re: Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

#689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*peddle

Fun fact: early opioid deliveries were actually, in fact, almost exclusively done by bicycle!

If they used those penny farthing bicycles I’m sure they needed quite a few painkillers.

Re: Supreme Court blocks controversial Purdue Pharma opioid settlement

#690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America, if I shot you in the leg and you died years later from an infection incurred because of that bullet wound I can and likely would be charged with murder because of the long string of consequence caused by my action. So I can draw a pretty solid causal line from “my father died in a tent in the woods behind a gas station off of I-95 to the Oxy he was once on.” Maybe the pill itself didn’t directly kill him…

> if I shot you in the leg and you died years later from an infection incurred because of that bullet wound I can and likely would be charged with murder because of the long string of consequence caused by my action. Which is a useful convention, because it deters the sort of violence as "shooting people in legs". The analogy doesn't hold. Drug warriors like yourself murdered the OD junkies. Your policy murders, and…

I can’t respond to any of your comments about policy, because you’ve never elaborated your ideas, and you seem to be assuming a great deal about mine and the other commenters.

1) Real heroin does not exist anymore in real life. All of it is varying cuts of fentanyl and research chemicals.

2) Your original comment asked the question “how many have died from oxy vs hepatitis”, which, along with your comments about heroin, made it clear that your knowledge isn’t up to date. It strains credulity to say that more people died of hepatitis than they did of the opioid they’re injecting into themselves regularly. Do you really think hepatitis is the root cause here? Or is it the proliferation of opioids much stronger than heroin. I’m sure you’ve heard of fentanyl and carfentanil, but there are entire other classes (such as Benzimidazoles) that have been rising to prominence in the last few years that are more dangerous.

3) I’m very anti DEA as well, and agree that prohibition kills. However, this is not simply a case of holding a manufacturer for a substance responsible. It’s what the Sacklers did after learning of the addictive power of these medicines that gives them culpability. It’s like a local bar serving someone even when they’re visibly drunk, which confers criminal responsibility if that drunk person later does something while under the influence. Making opiates == legal, being negligent == not legal. I wish we didn’t have a prohibition, and drugs could be acquired safely, but that doesn’t mean that the ends justify the means, and any drug manufacturer is automatically the good guy.

I just don’t think you’re approaching this subject with the care it deserves. It’s easy to make flippant comments blaming “Drug warriors” (genuinely confused what that even means—does that mean someone who is pro-prohibition?), it’s much harder to interact with the literal decades of research about this topic, and magnitudes harder to actually experience these things yourself. If you’d like a starting point, I found this report to be pretty approachable: https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3117.html. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if posing questions the way you have elicits emotional reactions from those who know people who have died. I lived through the first wave of fentanyl in the US, but I know quite a few who didn’t. Based off what i’ve been able to pick up out of all the vitriol, I think we would likely agree about the policy decisions, but your approach of making simplistic comments and then calling people evil based off of their response seems like an ineffectual strategy. And maybe it isn’t, but then you’d have solved the drug crisis already, right?

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