Live data from Hacker News

The $4 Million Complaint Call

inc.com

81–90 of 95 posts

Re: The $4 Million Complaint Call

#83
What I find most interesting here is not the customer service story. That's interesting and inspiring, but what really amazes me is that Bob didn't know how to use a computer, he spent a couple hours on the phone, and then never had to call back again.

If that's true, you know what it tells me? This was incredibly well designed software. The reason Ron got $4 million dollars wasn't because he spent time on the phone with Bob. It's because he had great software that worked and that a complete novice, with a little help, could configure and run. What large company wouldn't want software like that?

Yes, customer service is important, but having a great product that's easy to use is the really big lesson here.

Re: The $4 Million Complaint Call

#84

Reminds me of a support call with Ruth in Idaho years ago. It didn't result in $4M, but it wasn't small potatoes either. Like Bob, she was new to computers. I spent 10 hours over 2 days walking her thru the basics of using a computer so she could use our insurance company software. She was very thankful. So thankful she sent me a box containing ... two giant Idaho potatoes, nearly a foot long each. I said it wasn't s…

I love this story and I don’t care if it’s true.

Re: The $4 Million Complaint Call

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting take on it, which I disagree with. This isn't "gambling with your time" this is "making good on your customer's commitment". And your note triggered a really interesting visceral reaction in me. You can look at life as a series of choices you make and a scoring system by which you evaluate the quality of those choices. Typically a positive scoring system is used so the higher the score the 'better' the de…

> if you're committed to your company and your company's success, then you decide to do what ever it takes to solve your customer's problems. > Anytime you spend extra time with your customer you win. I don't think that anyone actually adopts this position. You would probably not become a kidney donor for your customer, or pay them $10,000 because they confess to you in a support call that they recently became unempl…

Ok, lets look at that for a moment.

This comment: "I don't think that anyone actually adopts this position. You would probably not become a kidney donor for your customer, or pay them $10,000 because they confess to you in a support call that they recently became unemployed. You would not build a new software application just for them. You would not even add a feature to the product just for one customer! (At least at the consumer software level.)" seems a bit like reductio ad asurdum right? Of course you wouldn't donate a kidney. The argument goes you solve their problems that are blocking their use of your product. In the anecdote the customer Bob didn't have quite the computer skills they needed, but those skills were essential to being able to run the product platform. So our author helped them develop those skills. Note that this person has already paid for and bought the product so they are already a customer.

"I guess the fundamental problem I have with your position is that you are preaching a message that lots of people in Fortune 500s should hear (and won't), to a group of people that are probably treating their customers too well already, and are perhaps feeling guilty that they do not do even more for them, and are thus primed to further the error. So in that specific sense, I think this advice is dangerous."

I disagree with that too, consider the AirBnB case of the customer who had her apartment trashed. That was a case where a non-fortune 500 company initially took the position of 'do what is best to protect the company', got a ton of criticism for it, and then turned around and focused more on making the customer whole before counting costs on the company. The latter was much more successful, and AirBnB has remained a steadily growing company. And they learned from that experience both how to be more customer focused and how to protect themselves in the future. If you have one customer, or ten, or ten thousand, every time you help one of them through a problem of using your product your company and your product gets better.

There are some great examples of great customer service in many YC companies and amongst folks here. There are also some less than great examples.

Then you finish with this, "... to a group of people that are probably treating their customers too well already, and are perhaps feeling guilty that they do not do even more for them, and are thus primed to further the error." which completely jumps off the rails. Small companies are busy places, and if the customers aren't having problems then generally they aren't taking any resources away. Its good to periodically poll them and ask how they are doing but there is never a risk of deciding to go just go out looking for customer problems to solve, if the company is focused on getting the product out the door.

So I started at Sun on the Monday after they went public. They were still a pretty small company < 2000 employees they were not a fortune 500 company yet, but they were very customer focused. I joined Network Appliance the Monday after their first layoff in their history, they weren't a fortune 500 company yet, but they were customer focused. My point is that being customer focused isn't something you 'add on' when you get big, it is something you 'build in' when you are small and you nurture. I strongly believe it contributes to the success probability.

Re: The $4 Million Complaint Call

#86
post #6

even if it had not led to the $4M account (which was an unpredictable, lottery-ticket sort of occurrence), the author identified an excellent "selfish" reason to take the call and spend time with bob - they explicitly designed their software as easy to use, so the travails of an actual person in the industry, who was using their software for his day-to-day business and having problems with it, would have been incredi…

Who doesn't design their software to be easy to use? This sort of claim is a catch-all.

Re: The $4 Million Complaint Call

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting take on it, which I disagree with. This isn't "gambling with your time" this is "making good on your customer's commitment". And your note triggered a really interesting visceral reaction in me. You can look at life as a series of choices you make and a scoring system by which you evaluate the quality of those choices. Typically a positive scoring system is used so the higher the score the 'better' the de…

Let me reply to just one part of this, which I think responds to the main point I was trying to make: > Anytime you spend extra time with your customer you win. While this may be true, the fact remains that you have a limited amount of time. As a matter of reality, you simply cannot spend an infinite amount of time with every customer. My original point was that, given that you have this limited amount of time, it is…

"While this may be true, the fact remains that you have a limited amount of time. As a matter of reality, you simply cannot spend an infinite amount of time with every customer."

Perfect. This captures in a single sentence the trap you can get yourself into here.

Lets start with the obvious, if your product is so impossible to use that you need infinite customer support hours with every customer in order to use it, well you need to pick a different line of work right?

But lets start with the assumption that you make a fine product and customers like it. The reality is that every product has to teach the customer how to use it at some level, from the simple picture on your electric toothbrush telling you to plug in the base and put the toothbrush into the base, to a description of effects various tools achieve in Photoshop.

You 1) sell the product, 2) customer buys it, 3) learns it, 4) uses it.

Its up to your marketing department to get the customer between steps 1 and 2, its up to your support to get them between 3 and 4. Every time you have to help a customer between steps 3 and 4, if you feed that back into the product (design, documentation, execution) you mitigate the future chance of hitting that problem with another customer. Unless your product is infinitely complex (see my first point) then, like a legal contract that has grown to 6 pages because of the clauses that deal with each problem that came before, the amount of time you need to spend with customers goes down. What is more amazing is that new customers benefit from all the work you've put into making the product easy to use and they share that as 'delight' with their peers, who bring in more customers.

This is the truth in this anecdote, you have a limited amount of time to succeed and every time you spend that time with a customer, helping to solve their problems with using your product, you gain much more time down the road. And you gain expertise in designing products in the future. If you read that discussion about the difference between 'years of experience' vs 'knowledge' this is it, in a nutshell. You as an entrepreneur become more valuable knowing about problems that customers will have, you as a company become more valuable because people learn to trust you, and your products become more valuable because all of that knowledge gets folded into them. There is no gamble here. There is no 'wasted' time. It is all useful time well spent, assuming you bring back the knowledge and incorporate it into your culture, and your products.

Re: The $4 Million Complaint Call

#88
post #6

even if it had not led to the $4M account (which was an unpredictable, lottery-ticket sort of occurrence), the author identified an excellent "selfish" reason to take the call and spend time with bob - they explicitly designed their software as easy to use, so the travails of an actual person in the industry, who was using their software for his day-to-day business and having problems with it, would have been incredi…

Who doesn't design their software to be easy to use? This sort of claim is a catch-all.

there's often a power versus ease-of-use tradeoff

Re: The $4 Million Complaint Call

#89
post #77
post #14

I love stories like this. A couple of others that come to mind with a similar theme: A bank was going to turn down an account for some long-haired young man in jeans who wanted his statements forwarded all over the place. Then some young employee told the middle-aged manager he was a wealthy rock star who needed his bank statements available while touring. Some young bank teller with an attitude was being an ass to a…

The rock star one doesn't make sense. Why didn't the bank look at the account to see that he was rich? My bank, for example, once gave me different treatment when they realized I also had a business account with them. There's also the story I heard attributed to Bob Miner of Oracle (see http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/09/oracle.html ). In the version I heard, once the bank learned he was now very wealthy, they le…

My recollection is that he was trying to open an account, so they didn't know how much he had. If he was already famous, it may not have occurred to him that some middle aged manager would not know who he was, so he may not have felt any need to say upfront "I'm a wealthy rock star." I am assuming this was pre-internet. These days, anyone can check their bank statement online from practically anywhere.

I turned 47 yesterday. Some of my anecdotes are no doubt older than some of the members of this forum.

Peace.

Re: The $4 Million Complaint Call

#90
post #84

Reminds me of a support call with Ruth in Idaho years ago. It didn't result in $4M, but it wasn't small potatoes either. Like Bob, she was new to computers. I spent 10 hours over 2 days walking her thru the basics of using a computer so she could use our insurance company software. She was very thankful. So thankful she sent me a box containing ... two giant Idaho potatoes, nearly a foot long each. I said it wasn't s…

I love this story and I don’t care if it’s true.

:-)

It is true. One potato was enough to supply all the mashed tubers for the extended-family Thanksgiving dinner. Bonus: we happened to grow a ginormous beet of comparable size, used at the same huge meal.

Post reply on HN