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Ask HN: Is open sourcing your code still an option with the rise of AI?

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Re: Ask HN: Is open sourcing your code still an option with the rise of AI?

#31

Post by palata »

elpocko wrote: post #30
palata wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that those who use AI say that the license does not apply ("fair use" giving them the right to ignore the license). It's not a question of humans vs machines: it's rather a question of whether those who train AI get to ignore copyright or not.

OP asked a specific question though. FWIW, learning from copyrighted data should not be a copyright violation. This applies equally to both humans and machines. I see no reason to differentiate.

> I see no reason to differentiate.

And those who disagree with you precisely see reasons to differentiate. I do.

Re: Ask HN: Is open sourcing your code still an option with the rise of AI?

#32

Post by tjr »

josephcsible wrote: post #21
muzani wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't one just literally say that AI is not allowed? It's not fair use when you're going directly against the license.

> It's not fair use when you're going directly against the license. Isn't the whole point of fair use that it's stuff you can do even if the copyright holder isn't okay with it?

https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/

Fair use can be a bit ambiguous, but I think there are definitely grounds to claim that what the AI companies are doing is not fair use.

I imagine it will have to be tried in court for anyone to say for certain. (And I imagine whatever court ruling happens would be contested. We may actually need multiple court rulings...)

Re: Ask HN: Is open sourcing your code still an option with the rise of AI?

#33

Post by elpocko »

palata wrote: post #31
elpocko wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP asked a specific question though. FWIW, learning from copyrighted data should not be a copyright violation. This applies equally to both humans and machines. I see no reason to differentiate.

> I see no reason to differentiate. And those who disagree with you precisely see reasons to differentiate. I do.

Well, I hope no one will listen to you and your Luddite friends because generative AI is amazing and one of the best things humans have created in my lifetime. Take all the available data and make amazing and fun things with it! That's what the Internet was created for.

Re: Ask HN: Is open sourcing your code still an option with the rise of AI?

#34

Post by shrimp_emoji »

elpocko wrote: post #33
palata wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see no reason to differentiate. And those who disagree with you precisely see reasons to differentiate. I do.

Well, I hope no one will listen to you and your Luddite friends because generative AI is amazing and one of the best things humans have created in my lifetime. Take all the available data and make amazing and fun things with it! That's what the Internet was created for.

Kind of. Making stuff is great; having an AI make it for you is not so great. It's kind of great. The art is soulless; the code is wonky. It enables people to do more, but, if anything, I think what we've learned is that taking shortcuts to do more stuff is bad. Hey, let's allow people to download modules right into their codebase of code other people wrote so it's easier for them to do more stuff! Enter left-pad. Enter a flood of crapware. Enter dependency build issues. Enter more bloated software than you've ever seen before. Enter needing more RAM than ever to compile AUR packages during hour long updates (assuming no dependency errors happen).

I am a luddite. I didn't used to be, and I don't want to be, and it's positioning myself on the wrong side of history, consigning me to a diverging function of increasing bitterness, but I feel forced into it by the direction tech is going. I think we've bitten the apple in our greed, and now we have to worry about our car spying on us because it's equipped with an autonomous and intelligent agent of oppression where, just a few years ago, that wasn't possible. "Progress", huh?

Anyway, I had to say that before saying I totally agree with you about your open source philosophy. I hate Microsoft, but, before, Microsoft employees could read my code, take inspiration, and write stuff with it. Hell, they could even paste snippets of it in. I have no way of knowing. Now, I'm uploading my code directly to Microsoft (okay: this fucks with me), and a Microsoft virtual mind is reading my code, taking inspiration, and/or pasting snippets of it in. It's a petty difference. The idea of free software is that anyone, man or machine, can see it and learn from it.

If you truly believe in the idea of free software, you should de facto be okay with AIs, Nazis, terrorists, $MEGACORP_YOU_DESPISE, ANYONE using your code.

The biggest differences are the increased probability that someone else will now be using your code and that you won't be accredited or your GPL license will be violated, but I consider those pretty ethereal issues.

Re: Ask HN: Is open sourcing your code still an option with the rise of AI?

#35

Post by palata »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #34
elpocko wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I hope no one will listen to you and your Luddite friends because generative AI is amazing and one of the best things humans have created in my lifetime. Take all the available data and make amazing and fun things with it! That's what the Internet was created for.

Kind of. Making stuff is great; having an AI make it for you is not so great. It's kind of great. The art is soulless; the code is wonky. It enables people to do more, but, if anything, I think what we've learned is that taking shortcuts to do more stuff is bad. Hey, let's allow people to download modules right into their codebase of code other people wrote so it's easier for them to do more stuff! Enter left-pad. En…

I am a luddite as well, and didn't used to be.

On the one hand, "working in tech" became so accessible that titles like "prompt engineer" don't sound completely ridiculous. Those people don't seem interested in understanding how technology works, but rather in making profit with whatever low-hanging fruit they find.

On the other hand, actually competent engineers get paid a ton to ignore any kind of ethics. They just get rich while having fun building tech that the first group will use.

The combination of both (unethical tech and not-so-competent "engineers" building on top of it) is destroying the world.

> The biggest differences are the increased probability that someone else will now be using your code and that you won't be accredited or your GPL license will be violated, but I consider those pretty ethereal issues.

Because you don't care about Free Software. I do.

Re: Ask HN: Is open sourcing your code still an option with the rise of AI?

#36

Post by palata »

elpocko wrote: post #33
palata wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see no reason to differentiate. And those who disagree with you precisely see reasons to differentiate. I do.

Well, I hope no one will listen to you and your Luddite friends because generative AI is amazing and one of the best things humans have created in my lifetime. Take all the available data and make amazing and fun things with it! That's what the Internet was created for.

> generative AI is amazing and one of the best things humans have created in my lifetime

Admittedly, humans haven't created a ton of great things in the last couple of decades. The evolution of Tech in the last 20 years is depressing. I guess I can understand how you may consider it "amazing", though I would expect that a teenager could understand how their life is going to get a lot harder in the future, and that Tech is a big part of the problem.

Re: Ask HN: Is open sourcing your code still an option with the rise of AI?

#37

Post by elpocko »

palata wrote: post #36
elpocko wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I hope no one will listen to you and your Luddite friends because generative AI is amazing and one of the best things humans have created in my lifetime. Take all the available data and make amazing and fun things with it! That's what the Internet was created for.

> generative AI is amazing and one of the best things humans have created in my lifetime Admittedly, humans haven't created a ton of great things in the last couple of decades. The evolution of Tech in the last 20 years is depressing. I guess I can understand how you may consider it "amazing", though I would expect that a teenager could understand how their life is going to get a lot harder in the future, and that Te…

Damn it, I thought I was a miserable prick. It's statistically likely that I'm older than you; just not as bitter yet.

I am optimistic and cheerful considering the mind-blowing advancements in generative AI. Given my good fortune to be alive during this time, I'm pleased to see these developments unfold, and I try my best to disregard the haters who are disparaging one of the greatest achievements in my lifetime.

I, a teenager who create their account here in 2016, instructed a locally run LLM to write the above message.

Re: Ask HN: Is open sourcing your code still an option with the rise of AI?

#38

Post by palata »

elpocko wrote: post #37
palata wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> generative AI is amazing and one of the best things humans have created in my lifetime Admittedly, humans haven't created a ton of great things in the last couple of decades. The evolution of Tech in the last 20 years is depressing. I guess I can understand how you may consider it "amazing", though I would expect that a teenager could understand how their life is going to get a lot harder in the future, and that Te…

Damn it, I thought I was a miserable prick. It's statistically likely that I'm older than you; just not as bitter yet. I am optimistic and cheerful considering the mind-blowing advancements in generative AI. Given my good fortune to be alive during this time, I'm pleased to see these developments unfold, and I try my best to disregard the haters who are disparaging one of the greatest achievements in my lifetime. I,…

Sorry, I didn't mean that you were necessarily a teenager. I was just saying that given the last 20 years in Tech, a teenager has only known it getting worse. You could be 60 and think that generative AI is one of the most amazing things invented in your lifetime, for all I know.
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