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Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

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Re: Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

#21
post #12

Parents seem to get out of this scot free. I see young children who's behaviour is ignored for long periods of time while parents are "busy" on their phones. The idea of parents being responsible for the upbringing of their children seems to be something which has disappeared.

> Parents seem to get out of this scot free.

What's the point of pointing the finger at that amorphous, anonymous mass of people? Incarcerate parents if they don't educate their children properly? Fine them if they allow their offspring too much phone time?

Re: Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

#22
post #2

I think companies should be forced to provide a chat-only version of their app that's totally equivalent otherwise. How many of you only have instagram installed because you use it to talk with friends, but then sleepwalk into the algorithmic feed/explore page until you suddenly regain consciousness and notice you're wasting your life... The solution is easy: make a chat-only version mandatory. I also think companies…

> I think companies should be forced to provide a chat-only version of their app

Like WhatsApp? Before TikTok, children would get hundreds of messages per day on WhatsApp. I don't know if/how that changed, but chat-only isn't a solution. Complete prohibition is the only way out.

Re: Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

#23
post #17

I wonder how many people talking about self-control have a good relationship with their phone? I don't know anyone personally who likes their relationship with their phone. I've been considering and trying to practice being kinder to myself, my phone, and my relationship with it. I still want to use less of it, but it's now a part of us, and will take time to almost amputate. I want to just stop feeding it, and let i…

I carry my phone with me just about everywhere. Sometimes in a restaurant I look at it a lot, even when I'm with friends. But in the sum of all things almost all my phone use is predominantly about the GPS and outside of that I look at my phone less than 10 minutes per day. Sometimes 5, sometimes 0.

It's not that I don't understand the fun of reading news, including places like HN, but I just can't get a proper hit on something like a phone so I'm not very tempted. Even typing in a URL is unpleasant on the phone.

Re: Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

#24
post #12

Parents seem to get out of this scot free. I see young children who's behaviour is ignored for long periods of time while parents are "busy" on their phones. The idea of parents being responsible for the upbringing of their children seems to be something which has disappeared.

The advantage of this position (looking at other parents' kids) is you'll always be able to find an angle.

You're blaming parents for letting their kids on their own device. If they'd follow your advice, you could then blame them for not letting their kids get bored [0]. And if they're reading you can blame the lack of exercise, or otherwise the lack of reading/writing by hand. Or if they're doing all of that in turn, you can go for the over-parenting angle.

It's infinite, no situation will be blame free if we look at the right angle.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/19/well/family/kids-summer-b...

Re: Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

#25
post #17

I wonder how many people talking about self-control have a good relationship with their phone? I don't know anyone personally who likes their relationship with their phone. I've been considering and trying to practice being kinder to myself, my phone, and my relationship with it. I still want to use less of it, but it's now a part of us, and will take time to almost amputate. I want to just stop feeding it, and let i…

I carry my phone with me just about everywhere. Sometimes in a restaurant I look at it a lot, even when I'm with friends. But in the sum of all things almost all my phone use is predominantly about the GPS and outside of that I look at my phone less than 10 minutes per day. Sometimes 5, sometimes 0. It's not that I don't understand the fun of reading news, including places like HN, but I just can't get a proper hit o…

> Sometimes in a restaurant I look at it a lot, even when I'm with friends

Turn it off. (Where I’m lost is in bed.)

Re: Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

#26
post #12

Parents seem to get out of this scot free. I see young children who's behaviour is ignored for long periods of time while parents are "busy" on their phones. The idea of parents being responsible for the upbringing of their children seems to be something which has disappeared.

I think that parents have the overwhelming bulk of the responsibility for what their kids have access to but as I've said to my parents in the past: "You're up against Nobel Prize winners who work for an organization with the goal of getting you addicted to ".

When you have thousands of devs trying to break your will power, you're really gonna struggle.

Social media has passed me by (almost 50yo) and I have zero interest in it but I have no doubt that if I did start using it, their algorithms would break me down, no matter how strong willed I am.

Unfortunately, like all addictions, the solution is probably abstinence.

Re: Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

#27
post #8

[flagged]

Completely agree. We don't need laws pointlessly micromanaging details. If we need laws now it's legislation from over 100 years into the future where these business ideas are not valid in the first place.

We do need laws. A parent cannot fight a fight versus ten-twenty billion/trillion dollar companies. Sugar in your cornflakes, sounds and graphics in your games, insane tracking on ads, and so on.

Those a-holes end up knowing more about your kid than you. And if you try to "fight" them by blocking their access to your kid, they got so many kids hooked up already that the exposure to garbage is unavoidable by some kid whose parents lost the fight or didn't bother to begin with.

A law will protect your kid from gambling in games with "chest full of surprises", and so on.

Re: Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

#28
post #26
post #12

Parents seem to get out of this scot free. I see young children who's behaviour is ignored for long periods of time while parents are "busy" on their phones. The idea of parents being responsible for the upbringing of their children seems to be something which has disappeared.

I think that parents have the overwhelming bulk of the responsibility for what their kids have access to but as I've said to my parents in the past: "You're up against Nobel Prize winners who work for an organization with the goal of getting you addicted to ". When you have thousands of devs trying to break your will power, you're really gonna struggle. Social media has passed me by (almost 50yo) and I have zero inte…

But its trivial to fight against for the parents - just don't give them the damned phone/tablet/tv remote etc. Till teens there is little rational justification, and massive evidence against it.

But then real challenge starts - folks with microscopic attention spans themselves are supposed to actually spend hours with their kids on activities that hardly give any dopamine kicks. Kids are really just a brutally honest mirror image of the parents, and very few parents these days like that.

Had few colleagues recently visiting wedding in Singapore. The stuff they said about the city itself is pretty sad - no western parent they saw was actually raising their own kids, cheap (often abused) nannies from ie Philippines were in charge of that. They allow kids anything, no discipline, no boundaries because who wants to be fired if kids complain. And then when whole family minus mighty nanny goes to ie restaurant, they often saw a parent literally begging 7 year old to have 30 minutes for themselves ('I'll buy you any toy, any food, anything, just give us 30 mins please' kind of story). I wonder why they even bothered having kids these days if they couldn't care less about them afterwards, while giving it all to some empty corporate careers and partying.

Or those 'super parents' who travel with kids in the car a lot. Then you look inside and there are X tablets neatly arranged in the back. Our kids are used to stare outside instead or read books/magazines, important 'boredom management skills' that can't be taught otherwise.

Re: Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

#29
post #12

Parents seem to get out of this scot free. I see young children who's behaviour is ignored for long periods of time while parents are "busy" on their phones. The idea of parents being responsible for the upbringing of their children seems to be something which has disappeared.

As a parent I agree parental reponsiblity is absolute but I haven't seen a workable solution reguarding social media.

I can't realistically monitor what my children are looking 24/7, like I can't listen to every conversation that they have.

I could ban all social media / phones but how is that going to prepare them for life in a world where social media is all encompassing? Plus they likely would be ostracized by their peers.

[I'm talking here about older children, teenagers. We also have a 5 year old and it's pretty easy with him, he doesn't have access to any form of social media.]

Re: Can a law make social media less 'addictive'?

#30
post #12

Parents seem to get out of this scot free. I see young children who's behaviour is ignored for long periods of time while parents are "busy" on their phones. The idea of parents being responsible for the upbringing of their children seems to be something which has disappeared.

As a parent I agree parental reponsiblity is absolute but I haven't seen a workable solution reguarding social media. I can't realistically monitor what my children are looking 24/7, like I can't listen to every conversation that they have. I could ban all social media / phones but how is that going to prepare them for life in a world where social media is all encompassing? Plus they likely would be ostracized by the…

> I could ban all social media / phones but how is that going to prepare them for life in a world where social media is all encompassing?

This is not the future that I expect. Rather, in my observation/bubble, "radical privacy advocates" are more and more spreading. So, I would expect that you rather prepare the children for a wrong (and worse) world.

> Plus they likely would be ostracized by their peers.

In my school time, the "nerds" (who were also privacy advocates, keywords: Diffie-Hellman key exchange, RSA, war against cryptography) found friends among each others. So, I wouldn't fear that your child becomes ostracized - it very likely will find (better) friends.

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