How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed • Hacker News Board

Re: How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed

#61

Post by dekhn » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 7:28 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #34

daniel_reetz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now think about 3D printers like the Bambu. A machine tool that can self-combust.

Citation needed. Even at 100% duty cycle the heated bed tops out at a stable, safe temperature. I know because I’ve struggled to keep it hot enough for certain materials. Maybe you could argue that the hot end could be set to melt down, ignoring the built-in safety mechanisms, but thats a stretch for doing much more than breaking the printer due to the way it’s designed. Regardless, if all of this still scares someon…

Actual citation: https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-g... (read the whole thread and note the picture) https://www.thissmarthouse.net/dont-burn-your-house-down-3d-... some academic paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313025688_CONSUMER_...

I suspect the biggest problems happen when users make their own mods and/or store their IPA or acetone next to the printer.

Simply noting that you have trouble getting a heated bed to stay hot does not mean that people's printers are not catching on fire.

Re: How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed

#62

Post by fragmede » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 7:35 PM UTC

hackernewds wrote: post #17

NewsaHackO wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, that part is insane. At this point it is safe to say that any non open source device that has access to you home network and the Internet can function as a backdoor. Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I guarantee the CIA has a list of common devices with this feature that they can use to get local access in most houses.

This is what makes me suspicious about Chinese home products like govee and how cheap they are. You're required to hard code in your SSID and Wi-Fi password. And they consistently beg for your location, despite having no need for it.

They need it. Because of design choices by everyone involved, it's all gathered under the name "location Services", and they are necessary to get the product to work. I'm not sure if it's a bad name or not. Your phone's bluetooth and wifi can be used to locate where you are, so the backwards framing is that it's location services, which isn't a lie, but it's misleading. Because the operating system manufacturers are trying to simplify things for us, it's "location services", not GPS, wifi, bluetooth. An app with location services enabled could take your gps coordinates and beam them home to a foreign government, and it's entirely possible they do, but because of how manufacturers have decided to name things so as to not confuse consumers, apps need "location services" to use bluetooth/change wifi.

Re: How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed

#63

Post by fragmede » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 7:37 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #61

Aurornis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. Even at 100% duty cycle the heated bed tops out at a stable, safe temperature. I know because I’ve struggled to keep it hot enough for certain materials. Maybe you could argue that the hot end could be set to melt down, ignoring the built-in safety mechanisms, but thats a stretch for doing much more than breaking the printer due to the way it’s designed. Regardless, if all of this still scares someon…

Actual citation: https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-g... (read the whole thread and note the picture) https://www.thissmarthouse.net/dont-burn-your-house-down-3d-... some academic paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313025688_CONSUMER_... I suspect the biggest problems happen when users make their own mods and/or store their IPA or acetone next to the printer. Simply noting that yo…

But if you have to go out of your way to create a fire hazard, that's a different situation than the Chinese government having the ability to remotely cause fires in homes in towns across America.

Re: How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed

#64

Post by alwa » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 7:45 PM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #52

repler wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some of the newer WiFi setups have an IoT subnet that works like a guest network. Worth using if your gear has it.

if my iot bed can talk to my iot camera, that's still not great. better than it talking to my NAS or laptop I suppose though

Sometimes this type of guest network can provide device isolation: devices can talk to the open internet, but not to anything else on the LAN.

Re: How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed

#65

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 7:55 PM UTC

binwiederhier wrote: post #53

teddyh wrote: post #4

Buried lede: “What I did find was a "convenient" backdoor that Sleep Number can use to SSH back into the hub (and my internal home network as a result).”

Devil's advocate. As someone who has developed a Linux based appliance with over 100k live units across the globe, it seems insane to NOT have access to the thing you're selling and that you have to maintain. If your thing breaks or gets bricked by an update, you will call support and expect them to fix it. You don't want to send in your device or have a support technician come to your house to fix it. So yes, to the…

The problem is it's gonna be a golden key system where everyone who's worked there for the last ten years has a copy

Re: How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed

#66

Post by flaminHotSpeedo » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 8:09 PM UTC

binwiederhier wrote: post #53

teddyh wrote: post #4

Buried lede: “What I did find was a "convenient" backdoor that Sleep Number can use to SSH back into the hub (and my internal home network as a result).”

Devil's advocate. As someone who has developed a Linux based appliance with over 100k live units across the globe, it seems insane to NOT have access to the thing you're selling and that you have to maintain. If your thing breaks or gets bricked by an update, you will call support and expect them to fix it. You don't want to send in your device or have a support technician come to your house to fix it. So yes, to the…

That's a fair argument, but it doesn't appear that that updates are high on sleep number's priority list:

> The hub includes Python 2.7.18. While extremely old (keep in mind the Hub appears to have been last updated in 2018)

If we give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they intended to to keep it up to date but ultimately compaines need to either be transparent about their remote access and manage it responsibly, which includes keeping the system patched, or give up access

Re: How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed

#67

Post by dylan604 » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 8:14 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #60

dylan604 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does my bed have an SSH server? because you bought it. sitting across the show room floor or one of the other pics on the sales website were other beds that did not have these features. instead, you let the sales person push you into a sale of a product you weren't happy with or you did not pay attention to the product listing. or your spouse bought it. none of these says anything positive about your situation…

Despite the way I worded my previous post, I didn't buy one of these. Your venom is misdirected.

[flagged]

Re: How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed

#68

Post by binwiederhier » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 8:16 PM UTC

flaminHotSpeedo wrote: post #66

binwiederhier wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate. As someone who has developed a Linux based appliance with over 100k live units across the globe, it seems insane to NOT have access to the thing you're selling and that you have to maintain. If your thing breaks or gets bricked by an update, you will call support and expect them to fix it. You don't want to send in your device or have a support technician come to your house to fix it. So yes, to the…

That's a fair argument, but it doesn't appear that that updates are high on sleep number's priority list: > The hub includes Python 2.7.18. While extremely old (keep in mind the Hub appears to have been last updated in 2018) If we give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they intended to to keep it up to date but ultimately compaines need to either be transparent about their remote access and manage it responsibly…

> Python 2.7.18

I am not defending them for not keeping their stuff up-to-date, but it is very common practice for embedded systems to be hopelessly outdated. I've done what OP describes with IPMI/BMC systems for $mainboardmanufacturer1 and $mainboardmanufacturer2 (both really big name brands), and their BMC systems were equally outdated. It was almost comical, but really sad at the same time.

Moral of the story is to firewall things off really well, I suppose.

At $oldjob, I designed an upgrade mechanism to do A/B image updates so things were always up to date, or at 2-3 weeks out of date. See [1].

For small embedded systems that do not have enough space/bandwidth, this may not be feasible though.

[1] https://blog.heckel.io/2019/09/18/image-based-upgrades-upgra...

Re: How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed

#69

Post by philsnow » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 8:19 PM UTC

repler wrote: post #30

op00to wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the most interesting point for me, and I assume most of my IOT type shit has this functionality.

some of the newer WiFi setups have an IoT subnet that works like a guest network. Worth using if your gear has it.

I don't even want these devices making outgoing connections to the internet. I have my router drop all outgoing connection attempts from my IOT vlan. I can connect to the cameras etc on there from other VLANs but that's the only way packets get out.

Re: How to get root access to your Sleep Number bed

#70

Post by binwiederhier » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 8:19 PM UTC

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #65

binwiederhier wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate. As someone who has developed a Linux based appliance with over 100k live units across the globe, it seems insane to NOT have access to the thing you're selling and that you have to maintain. If your thing breaks or gets bricked by an update, you will call support and expect them to fix it. You don't want to send in your device or have a support technician come to your house to fix it. So yes, to the…

The problem is it's gonna be a golden key system where everyone who's worked there for the last ten years has a copy

That is correct. But it is possible to design a system with short lived auth tokens/keys and frequent key rotation. I designed such a system at $oldjob for remote access (see [1]). Obviously there is always a risk, and there are always syseng/ops people with access. That is correct.

[1] https://blog.heckel.io/2019/11/19/providing-remote-access-to...