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Do What You Love

blogs.valvesoftware.com

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Re: Do What You Love

#51

Post by creamyhorror »

potatolicious wrote: post #44
jacobr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its fun to know you don't have to worry getting up early in the morning and do all you have to to in a hurry just to hit the work desk. Its also fun to not come home tired wanting to do something you love but not having energy or the time to do it. You can also accomplish this by cutting expenses and reducing your working hours. I guess it depends on your definition of "rich", but it's very easy to increase your sp…

> "You can also accomplish this by cutting expenses and reducing your working hours." This is so easy for people like us to say. We're the ones pulling in 6-figure salaries, where I could conceivably work half-time and still pay the bills. Hell, I could work a quarter-time and pay the bills without experiencing a poverty lifestyle. Try giving your advice to your local burger jockey, shoe salesman, and janitor. 50% of…

I agree with your response, but would like to point out that it's primarily a US phenomenon. Programmers in Asia don't get mega bucks, and even those who attempt to do startups mostly don't either (there just isn't a big consumer market and big bubbly stock market, excepting China and maybe India). They still enjoy their coding, though, even if it's just another mediocrely-paid job. You usually get less here as a programmer than a grad entering finance, law, or any MNC does (unless you're coding for an MNC).

Re: Do What You Love

#52

Post by soup10 »

kamaal wrote: post #17
rlu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"shit careers" how? Because they don't pay well? You won't get rich? If you're going to dedicate the next 30 years of your life to something, you'd better damn well enjoy it or you will hate your life. You spend more time at work than with your family, so you'd better not hate your job or you'll go insane. A job that you GENUINELY enjoy should ALWAYS be taken over a job that pays big bucks. We are EXTREMELY fortunate…

>>"shit careers" how? Because they don't pay well? You won't get rich? Contrary to whatever you think 'getting rich' is very important. Its also fun to be rich. Its fun to know you don't have to worry getting up early in the morning and do all you have to to in a hurry just to hit the work desk. Its also fun to not come home tired wanting to do something you love but not having energy or the time to do it. Its also f…

How do you explain people that are financially secure but work anyway?

Working is part of life. Ferraris and vacations to Europe are fun, but there's plenty of more affordable entertainment that is just as fun. It just depends on your perspective and personality. Some people will never be satisfied with what they have, and no amount of money will change that.

If I had to choose between working 40 hours a week at a job I hate and driving a Ferrari vs 40 hours a week at a job I love and driving a Camry. I'd choose the Camry every time. (Obviously these aren't the only options in real life)

There are millions of ways to make money, and there are millions of ways to spend it. Being focused on 'getting rich' can easily make you blind to the big picture.

Re: Do What You Love

#53

Post by TorKlingberg »

pavlov wrote: post #48
potatolicious wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think his complaint goes away at all. For one thing, in my experience, most people don't love to create. Most people aren't artists, programmers, writers, chefs, or carpenters because they wake up in the morning and look forward to it. My overwhelming impression from the vast majority of people I've met in my life indicates that creating things is simply not a driving force. If given a complete lack of want,…

If given a complete lack of want, I'm convinced the majority of the world's population will choose to do nothing creative with it, and spend it socializing, fucking, and eating. The reality TV show Big Brother is strong evidence in favor of your argument. It's an artificial environment where people are aggressively prevented from creating anything. You can't even smuggle a pencil and a piece of paper into the Big Bro…

I don't think we should draw general conclusions about humanity based on reality show contestants. The draw to participate in Big Brother is that the house is full of TV cameras. Which, ironically, could actually be described as creating something.

Re: Do What You Love

#54

Post by kamaal »

lotharbot wrote: post #39
kamaal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>"shit careers" how? Because they don't pay well? You won't get rich? Contrary to whatever you think 'getting rich' is very important. Its also fun to be rich. Its fun to know you don't have to worry getting up early in the morning and do all you have to to in a hurry just to hit the work desk. Its also fun to not come home tired wanting to do something you love but not having energy or the time to do it. Its also f…

> "that's still not sufficient for what one would call an awesome life." For what who would call an awesome life? I stay at home with my family. We get up when we want to get up. My wife does contract work, enough to pay the bills and put a bit away at considerably less than full time, and she does it from the next room. My son has me as a dedicated full-time caretaker and educator. We don't go to Europe, but we can…

>>You can take your Ferrari on the Autobahn; I'll be out playing in the dirt with my kid.

Most people would be OK with that, the problem only starts when you start comparing the Ferrari guy and play-in-the-dirt-with-kid guy.

Objectively everyone is happy, subjectively they are not. And no human ever exists in isolation.

Re: Do What You Love

#55

Post by kamaal »

creamyhorror wrote: post #51
potatolicious wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "You can also accomplish this by cutting expenses and reducing your working hours." This is so easy for people like us to say. We're the ones pulling in 6-figure salaries, where I could conceivably work half-time and still pay the bills. Hell, I could work a quarter-time and pay the bills without experiencing a poverty lifestyle. Try giving your advice to your local burger jockey, shoe salesman, and janitor. 50% of…

I agree with your response, but would like to point out that it's primarily a US phenomenon. Programmers in Asia don't get mega bucks, and even those who attempt to do startups mostly don't either (there just isn't a big consumer market and big bubbly stock market, excepting China and maybe India). They still enjoy their coding, though, even if it's just another mediocrely-paid job. You usually get less here as a pro…

>>(there just isn't a big consumer market and big bubbly stock market, excepting China and maybe India)

I am from India. And start up scenario in India is not very great. And programmer salaries are average no matter where you work.

Re: Do What You Love

#56

Post by koide »

quaunaut wrote: post #3
koide wrote: post #2

This: "In general, try things that seem worthwhile, set goals and work hard to achieve them, and see where that leads and how you respond. It’ll be clear when something becomes compelling" Everybody says "do what you love". Few say how to find what you love. Fewer still say how to manage to work as hard as you should to find what you love. It's kind of a circular problem, when you love something you'll naturally work…

As a recurring depressive, I can't help but think, "How the hell do people live day to day not knowing at least one thing they absolutely love?" If not for my own things that I intensely can dig into, I would've offed myself a long time ago.

It's amazing how different how life is lived and understood between depressive and non depressive people.

I personally have a really hard time even imagining depression, and I ask myself: "how can it be so hard to just pull yourself together?"

I can rationally understand it is really hard, but I can't imagine it.

Re: Do What You Love

#57

Post by kamaal »

soup10 wrote: post #52
kamaal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>"shit careers" how? Because they don't pay well? You won't get rich? Contrary to whatever you think 'getting rich' is very important. Its also fun to be rich. Its fun to know you don't have to worry getting up early in the morning and do all you have to to in a hurry just to hit the work desk. Its also fun to not come home tired wanting to do something you love but not having energy or the time to do it. Its also f…

How do you explain people that are financially secure but work anyway? Working is part of life. Ferraris and vacations to Europe are fun, but there's plenty of more affordable entertainment that is just as fun. It just depends on your perspective and personality. Some people will never be satisfied with what they have, and no amount of money will change that. If I had to choose between working 40 hours a week at a jo…

>>How do you explain people that are financially secure but work anyway?

Working on what? I pity the person who has all the money in the world to take a permanent holiday, but is still a MegaCorp slave. Who works from 9-5 every day. I can understand if you are working on a curious problem. But if you have a financial leg to stand on and you are still on a day to day job. You need to seriously rethink your life and how you are spending your time.

>>Working is part of life.

Part, yes. But not your whole life. That's the whole point.

>>Ferraris and vacations to Europe are fun, but there's plenty of more affordable entertainment that is just as fun.

Being happy with little isn't the same as having experiences bought by big money. At most, being happy with little is only a indication of compromise, you show when you resign to trying no more.

Re: Do What You Love

#58

Post by koide »

grlthgn wrote: post #10

I always hated that advice "Do what you Love". It's a fucking terrible advice. I know people mean well when they give that advice, but its a downright terrible advice for the vast majority of people. Let me point out that this is an article written by a guy that ended up "loving" programming. I know that there is a lot of programmers here, (myself included) but let's face the reality here: only weirdos love programmi…

You can certainly "do what you love" after work. I'd argue that that's what 99% of the people actually do, they stand a job they dislike and then they go home or to a bar to eat, fuck, socialize and watch sports.

I think that it's really important to try to find passion in our lives. Not necessarily a passion that is a job, but a passion that is fulfilling.

I know that this is not what the author is saying, but I think it's an important perspective to keep.

Re: Do What You Love

#59

Post by mattgreenrocks »

debt wrote: post #28
bufordtwain wrote: post #9

This was the highlight for me: "Perhaps the most useful way to figure out what you really want to do is to observe what you actually choose to do." In other words, what do you do in your free time?

It seems so weird to me that we've gotten to a point where people don't think they are what they do.

Well, they aren't. They just cognitively distance themselves from it because it sucks.

And I say this as someone with an achievement neurosis. I fight this perception of myself and others because it ultimately does not benefit me -- I'd be working hard either way. No need to pile my identity onto it.

Re: Do What You Love

#60

Post by mattgreenrocks »

ashwin_krish wrote: post #37

Going along with grlthgn, The bigger problem with 'Doing what you love' is most times, we are not aware of what we love. It is just impossible to find what you love. Sometimes the thing we love is short lived. This leads us to the next question, do everyone in the world have some this life-long activity they love? That question has never been answered.

It's not impossible, but it does require introspection, and a willingness to change things up. The combination of qualities excludes many people - you can have introspection without action, but it can end up in depression.

It's also partially generational, too. Later generations aren't as tied to their jobs because they grew up in a world where, collectively, employers didn't take quite as good care of employees.

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