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It's getting harder to die

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Re: It's getting harder to die

#191

Post by anonymouskimmer »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #180
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you really have to be so violent in response? I was trying to meet your request for an option that came as close as possible to just flicking a switch. > Step into a room, step inside a pod, press a button, pod closes, press another button to replace the air with nitrogen, done. I know of a friend of a friend who did this on his own. If you are of sufficient capacity to step into some place and press a button th…

No. The tank that can hold enough nitrogen (or helium or argon--same volume means the same pressure which means effectively the same weight) to do the job reliably is heavy. By the time your health is such that you would choose that path you likely can't lift it. I have seen my wife struggle with lifting that weight when it's in a form meant to be lifted. I've seen her fail when it wasn't as cooperative.

That's what white glove delivery is for.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#192

Post by LorenPechtel »

JansjoFromIkea wrote: post #36
Modified3019 wrote: post #2

The topic of a “living will” came up in a family discussion after my mother’s funeral. None of us have a pathological desire to live at all costs, but as it turns out, figuring out when to say “yeah I’m done, see yah” and halt treatment is way more complex than it first seems, especially when making the decision for someone else. Things can happen very fast, and there’s a bunch of things that basically require a job…

"especially when making the decision for someone else" This gets additionally terrible when it's for someone else whilst handling the wishes of everyone else with significant ties to them. Had a relative die a while back who was going through absolute hell the final few days; some family members still have a massive grudge towards the hospice for what they feel like were moves done to ensure they died quicker. I've a…

I saw it with my father, also. Some people aren't ready to accept that death is coming and blame anyone/anything they can rather than accept it. Just try harder, you can do it!

No. The cancer was everywhere and it was aggressive. Try what harder? There was nothing to do. Someone close to them felt my mother was being evil and incompetent in not pushing him to eat more. While he lost a lot of weight the cause of death was when it got his kidney (one had already been removed when it was thought to be stage 1.)

Re: It's getting harder to die

#193

Post by dntrkv »

ozim wrote: post #92
anonzzzies wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here they would ask you (unless dementia and not arranged, which is an ongoing issue) if you want more morphine and you can keep saying yes until you don’t wake up. Or click the button yourself; there is no limit (also; very hackable these limiting machines). Probably many people in a long decline would just hold the button until not waking up; that is the way it should be. Some people worry about the gov making us w…

You know that government doesn’t care about you. They care about your relatives who are burdened not “accidentally” holding that button for you when somehow you would still like to live.

That has nothing to do with it. Society in general is just uncomfortable with the idea of euthanasia and politicians don’t want to be labeled as promoting “suicide”

It’s just not a great hill to die on since most people that actually care strongly about the issue are the ones bed ridden in the hospital.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#195

Post by LorenPechtel »

martinpw wrote: post #107
scottcorgan wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No place is rather be than with my spouse in a time like that!

I think that's easy to say in the abstract, but the reality can be quite different. Of course every case is different, but for example: * Spouse has dementia, does not recognize you, abuses you for being an intruder in the house, constantly shouts for help all times of day and night. * Feeding, cleaning (double incontinence). * Can't go out except for a few minutes when nurses are present. The above goes on for month…

Dementia is particularly evil.

As far as I'm concerned I am my mind. If my mind is gone my body doesn't matter, please don't waste effort in caring for it.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#196

Post by manquer »

treprinum wrote: post #81
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #77

I'd like dying to be as easy as flicking a switch. Medically-assisted suicide ought to be available to anyone (not only of sound mind and not only with a terminal condition), and at any time. People ought to have the right to die, just like they have the right to water, food, and shelter. In most countries it is currently easier to take other people's lives than to take one's own. People ought to be able to step into…

Let's run a thought experiment - you make death super easy like in a suicide booth in Futurama. How many people are going to fight life obstacles, pushing society forward, or rather terminally quit at the first sign of troubles? Nihilism was quite popular in the 19th century and led us to two world wars already. All you'll get is a quick extinction of people like you in favor of those that persist and your opinion wi…

> your opinion will be eliminated from the gene pool

The impulse to die being eliminated from the gene pool is a good thing ? Or rather the characteristics to fight for life at all costs is what one would want in the gene pool ?

If what you assume is true, at some point people will want to die less and the problem will self correct .

Death is important tool in evolution delaying it is not argument for it .

Re: It's getting harder to die

#197

Post by bowsamic »

nextaccountic wrote: post #64
Perenti wrote: post #54

It's worse than the article says, because it's from a doctor's perspective. I have CRPS, one of the contenders for worst chronic pain you can have. It's a "suicide disease", because if it advances to stage 3/4, there's a suicide rate of about 70%. It sucks a lot. I've had well over 200 spinal procedures over the last 30 years to try to mitigate the pain, with dozens of other surgical procedures in less tricky spots.…

> I was threatened with an ITO (Involuntary Treatment Order) if I didn't go ahead with having an internal defibrilator put in me. Did this threat come from a doctor? What an astounding lack of empathy. I would switch medical providers in a heartbeat if at all possible.

> Did this threat come from a doctor? What an astounding lack of empathy.

Perhaps this is a US vs. other countries thing, but I live in Germany and was born in the UK, and I'm quite shocked that you are surprised by unempathetic (or downright evil) doctors

Re: It's getting harder to die

#198

Post by bowsamic »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #77

I'd like dying to be as easy as flicking a switch. Medically-assisted suicide ought to be available to anyone (not only of sound mind and not only with a terminal condition), and at any time. People ought to have the right to die, just like they have the right to water, food, and shelter. In most countries it is currently easier to take other people's lives than to take one's own. People ought to be able to step into…

As someone with depression, I'm very very very glad that your vision is not true

Re: It's getting harder to die

#199

Post by bowsamic »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #136
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd like dying to be as easy as flicking a switch. It is. Just flick the blade open on a switchblade and stab into your temple. You don't need a fricking second or third party to help you with this. Some of us atheists view life as more precious than many religious people do because this is it.

> stab > fricking Do you really have to be so violent in response? There exist supervised injection sites for narcotics. You bring the drugs, the healthcare workers give you clean syringes/needles/paraphernalia and help you with the injection. As a society we have decided that it is OK for people to potentially wreck their own lives with narcotics. Why not a similar concept for dying, where the end is only eternal ob…

Why are you against religious views?

Re: It's getting harder to die

#200

Post by Flumio »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #168
LorenPechtel wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, AFIAK hypoxia is the best way to go. Survivors who are rescued in time (or, like you, self-rescue) don't have a bad experience. The MAiD protocol used in Canada likewise appears to not be a bad experience as the only thing the patient experiences is anesthesia.

I'm also coming to the conclusion that inert gas hypoxia is going to be my way out. My end has to be, as far as I can make it, painless and polite, meaning a happy exit with minimal inconveniencing of as few as possible other people. Any suitable substance for this seems to be taken off the market, even basic stuff like metal nitrites (as used in curing meat. Try getting hold of a nontrivial amount of this in the UK)…

Any thoughts on how to inhale it without risking others finding you in a oxygen deprived setup?

Like a warning sign or some fan kicking in later?

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