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James Joyce was a complicated man

thefitzwilliam.com

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Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#11

Post by DiggyJohnson »

duke_sam wrote: post #10
sourcepluck wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? -- technically yes, of course. In reality? Eh, it's complicated. There's probably a few reasons, but if you told an Irish person they were European, people would be bemused, at least.

Ireland tends to top the list of countries happy to be part of the EU. Which would be an odd position if European was a touchy identifier. It’s also not unheard of for people to refer to the mainland as if it were the whole continent.

Regardless of this analysis, the claim you’re respond to is true. Depends on context.

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#12

Post by OliverM »

sourcepluck wrote: post #8
bbor wrote: post #5

A) Great article, thanks for posting! I would say the headline is a little bit of clickbait (the "complication" implied there is that he had complicated feelings about Ireland, plus maybe some sexual kink stuff), but in 2024 I can't complain. After all, as an ex-Adsense employee, it's more my fault than theirs! B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? C) “Just as ancient Egypt is dead,” h…

B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? -- technically yes, of course. In reality? Eh, it's complicated. There's probably a few reasons, but if you told an Irish person they were European, people would be bemused, at least.

Not this Irishman…

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#13

Post by halfdaft »

bbor wrote: post #5

A) Great article, thanks for posting! I would say the headline is a little bit of clickbait (the "complication" implied there is that he had complicated feelings about Ireland, plus maybe some sexual kink stuff), but in 2024 I can't complain. After all, as an ex-Adsense employee, it's more my fault than theirs! B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? C) “Just as ancient Egypt is dead,” h…

just a thought on B - being an island in Europe, it’s common for people in Ireland to refer to the rest of Europe as ‘the continent’. It feels like Irish people see ourselves as definitely part of the EU but less so as a geographic part of Europe. Or something

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#14

Post by Kamq »

duke_sam wrote: post #10
sourcepluck wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? -- technically yes, of course. In reality? Eh, it's complicated. There's probably a few reasons, but if you told an Irish person they were European, people would be bemused, at least.

Ireland tends to top the list of countries happy to be part of the EU. Which would be an odd position if European was a touchy identifier. It’s also not unheard of for people to refer to the mainland as if it were the whole continent.

> Which would be an odd position if European was a touchy identifier

They said "bemused", not that it was touchy. The comment seems to imply that Ireland sees itself as a very non-central example of the category "European".

Sort of like ostriches and birds. If you told me that there was a bird nearby, and I rounded a corner to find an ostrich, you'd be technically correct, but I'd still be surprised and probably not trust your warnings nearly as much as I had 10 minutes before.

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#15

Post by Irishsteve »

bbor wrote: post #5

A) Great article, thanks for posting! I would say the headline is a little bit of clickbait (the "complication" implied there is that he had complicated feelings about Ireland, plus maybe some sexual kink stuff), but in 2024 I can't complain. After all, as an ex-Adsense employee, it's more my fault than theirs! B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? C) “Just as ancient Egypt is dead,” h…

B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...?

- If someone told me they were from Europe, I'd assume they meant the continent.

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#16

Post by elefanten »

mqefjh wrote: post #6
bbor wrote: post #5

A) Great article, thanks for posting! I would say the headline is a little bit of clickbait (the "complication" implied there is that he had complicated feelings about Ireland, plus maybe some sexual kink stuff), but in 2024 I can't complain. After all, as an ex-Adsense employee, it's more my fault than theirs! B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? C) “Just as ancient Egypt is dead,” h…

[flagged]

Assuming this is sarcastic, it will never be realistic to pursue less bloodshed by allowing bloodthirsty conquerors to go about their business without opposition.

So, yes, unironically: slava ukraini

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#17

Post by trilbyglens »

Irishsteve wrote: post #15
bbor wrote: post #5

A) Great article, thanks for posting! I would say the headline is a little bit of clickbait (the "complication" implied there is that he had complicated feelings about Ireland, plus maybe some sexual kink stuff), but in 2024 I can't complain. After all, as an ex-Adsense employee, it's more my fault than theirs! B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? C) “Just as ancient Egypt is dead,” h…

B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? - If someone told me they were from Europe, I'd assume they meant the continent.

This is how many people from the British isles think of it.

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#18

Post by te_chris »

patrickscoleman wrote: post #7

I am currently reading Ulysses, so this was a nice surprise on hn. Great historical context. Thank you! After many years of false starts, I stopped trying to understand everything and just let the prose wash over me. And now I’m enjoying it. “ I feel I need not worry so much about “misreading” Joyce. Every reading of Ulysses is a misreading, a faulty but revealing translation, a way of drawing the novel into new and…

Yes this is the way! I finished it a few years back in the same way and am both smug and glad that I did. Exceptional writing.

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#20

Post by crims0n »

patrickscoleman wrote: post #7

I am currently reading Ulysses, so this was a nice surprise on hn. Great historical context. Thank you! After many years of false starts, I stopped trying to understand everything and just let the prose wash over me. And now I’m enjoying it. “ I feel I need not worry so much about “misreading” Joyce. Every reading of Ulysses is a misreading, a faulty but revealing translation, a way of drawing the novel into new and…

I am reading it now as well! I always felt like I wasn't ready, but last week I just decided to go for it. It's been on my list ever since finishing "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man". The only other prep I did was reading Hamlet... which so far seems to have not been necessary (but am only up to Lestrygonians).

I actually have to credit Joseph Heller for the nudge to start, I had recently remembered a quote in Catch-22 that stuck with me:

"He knew everything there was to know about literature, except how to enjoy it."

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