James Joyce was a complicated man

This is actually one of the best summaries of Ulysses I've ever seen, and I took an extension course at Stanford on the book. We also had an approved commentary book.

I don't remember most of these themes being raised. I remember the teacher saying with awe, "He can do whatever he wants with the English language!" and me thinking, "Who cares?"

He also went on and on about Joyce's stream-of-consciousness writing, and how that was a real reflection of how we think. Again, I thought, "So what? It's old hat now."

As for the fragmentary style: sorry, this didn't impress me either, at the time.

Good article.

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#5

Post by bbor » Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 5:39 PM UTC

A) Great article, thanks for posting! I would say the headline is a little bit of clickbait (the "complication" implied there is that he had complicated feelings about Ireland, plus maybe some sexual kink stuff), but in 2024 I can't complain. After all, as an ex-Adsense employee, it's more my fault than theirs!

B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...?

C)

  “Just as ancient Egypt is dead,” he wrote, “so is ancient Ireland.” His aim was not to become bound to a romanticised notion of the Irish past, but to show modern Ireland to itself and to make an Irish literature that was truly European."

A beautiful notion... Will definitely be rattling around in my head as I think about modern nationalism and the extent to which its ever okay to talk about "western civilization" or "athenian legacy" and such with a straight face. Ditto for the "founding fathers" of the USA, really... I'm hopeful we can build a truly global American culture, and hopefully with a bit less bloodshed than secularism cost Europe.

D) If this essay interested you and you haven't read The Hyperion Cantos, I highly highly recommend it! Simmons employs Joyce as a central motif throughout the series, which I recall being somewhat confounding at the time, but likely eye-opening if you're familiar with the man's work!

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#6

Post by mqefjh » Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 5:41 PM UTC

bbor wrote: post #5

A) Great article, thanks for posting! I would say the headline is a little bit of clickbait (the "complication" implied there is that he had complicated feelings about Ireland, plus maybe some sexual kink stuff), but in 2024 I can't complain. After all, as an ex-Adsense employee, it's more my fault than theirs! B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? C) “Just as ancient Egypt is dead,” h…

[flagged]

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#7

Post by patrickscoleman » Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 6:13 PM UTC

I am currently reading Ulysses, so this was a nice surprise on hn. Great historical context. Thank you! After many years of false starts, I stopped trying to understand everything and just let the prose wash over me. And now I’m enjoying it.

“ I feel I need not worry so much about “misreading” Joyce. Every reading of Ulysses is a misreading, a faulty but revealing translation, a way of drawing the novel into new and perhaps unintended relationships. All that matters to me is finding a way to read the book that is interesting: that opens out instead of closing down.” [1]

[1] https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2022/12/07/misreading-ul...

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#8

Post by sourcepluck » Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 6:15 PM UTC

bbor wrote: post #5

A) Great article, thanks for posting! I would say the headline is a little bit of clickbait (the "complication" implied there is that he had complicated feelings about Ireland, plus maybe some sexual kink stuff), but in 2024 I can't complain. After all, as an ex-Adsense employee, it's more my fault than theirs! B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? C) “Just as ancient Egypt is dead,” h…

B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...?

-- technically yes, of course. In reality? Eh, it's complicated. There's probably a few reasons, but if you told an Irish person they were European, people would be bemused, at least.

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#9

Post by sourcepluck » Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 6:17 PM UTC

Excellent essay! Really loved it.

For Finnegan's Wake - I find it's best to open it up at random and shout it out as you pace around. Maybe peer at yourself now and again in a mirror. If you can work it up to a roar, then you'll really be flying, but it'd depend on what you had for breakfast.

Re: James Joyce was a complicated man

#10

Post by duke_sam » Sat, Jun 29, 2024, 6:22 PM UTC

sourcepluck wrote: post #8

bbor wrote: post #5

A) Great article, thanks for posting! I would say the headline is a little bit of clickbait (the "complication" implied there is that he had complicated feelings about Ireland, plus maybe some sexual kink stuff), but in 2024 I can't complain. After all, as an ex-Adsense employee, it's more my fault than theirs! B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? C) “Just as ancient Egypt is dead,” h…

B) "From then on, Joyce lived in Europe." Isn't Ireland in Europe...? -- technically yes, of course. In reality? Eh, it's complicated. There's probably a few reasons, but if you told an Irish person they were European, people would be bemused, at least.

Ireland tends to top the list of countries happy to be part of the EU. Which would be an odd position if European was a touchy identifier. It’s also not unheard of for people to refer to the mainland as if it were the whole continent.