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Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

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Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#961
post #890

Congress can actually legislate the right of agencies to interpret the gaps in the laws back into effect - by passing a law that explicitly gives agencies this power. Just like congress can legislate abortion laws rather than leaving it to judicial precedence. Fundamentally there’s nothing wrong with the position of supreme court to push the responsibility of lawmaking back on congress.

>Fundamentally there’s nothing wrong with the position of supreme court to push the responsibility of lawmaking back on congress. It would literally be impossible for congress to make a law covering every single nuance agencies are tasked with. This Supreme Court knows it. This is nothing more than deregulation on a scale not seen in modern American history. When you can’t find clean drinking water in 30 years, this…

This case is about whose interpretation gets to fill in the gaps.

The statute (APA) requires courts to form an independent judgment about the gaps.

The Chevron doctrine required courts in certain cases to set this judgment aside in favor of an agency’s judgment—-basically on the basis that the agencies are closer to the problems and know better.

This setting aside may be the better outcome, however it is not explicitly specified in the statute (APA).

Ultimately, if Congress wants this to be the case, they /can/ amend the statute (APA), effectively enshrining the Chevron doctrine.

At the end of the day, the court’s decision here rests on statutory interpretation (not constitutional doctrine) so Congress could change the outcome by amending the statute (APA) to explicitly codify Chevron. This would be achieved with its ordinary legislative power (Article 1 Section 7 of the Constitution).

The court’s decision does effectively put the ball back in Congress’ court.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#962
post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Devastating that expertise will no longer influence the application of law and policy. How on earth do you come to that conclusion? Nothing stop Congress from leveraging experts in drafting laws. This simply requires that interpretation of law be done in a clear transparent way (courts), rather than by a nameless, faceless, unelected bureacrat. How can anyone say "no, I'd rather have some bureaucrat do it"?

Judges are also unelected bureaucrats, and they are less subject to democratic oversight since they have lifetime appointments vs agency heads who are appointed by the executive branch and can be effectively "voted out" if voters choose a different president who replaces them.

But judges would never have a say as long as Congress fully fleshed out the law?

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#963
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this will cause us to start electing experts instead of lifelong politicians? The number of doctors, engineers, and scientists in Congress is pathetic.

I keep telling people. Make stochastic democracy happen, where every 4 years randomly selected individuals populate the house to have a simple yay/nay vote on senate generated items ( senate can stay as is ). I used to joke about it, but I no longer think I am.

I'd suggest shrinking the pool somewhat, perhaps by selecting from people involved in state-level politics already? This idea that any random person is fit to be a representative is bonkers to me.

The House should be filled with the Common Man, if you will, but I'm certain the authors were envisioning a parvenu bootstrapper like Ben Franklin or a Paul Revere.

But the Senate should change too--repeal the 17th amendment and bring the election of US Senators back to the state legislative bodies. It's a key element that made us a Republic and I'm failing to see how we can even refer to ourselves as such since 1913. I find it grating when people say "our democracy" because it is true now, but shouldn't be.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#964
post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fundamentally there’s nothing wrong with the position of supreme court to push the responsibility of lawmaking back on congress. It would literally be impossible for congress to make a law covering every single nuance agencies are tasked with. This Supreme Court knows it. This is nothing more than deregulation on a scale not seen in modern American history. When you can’t find clean drinking water in 30 years, this…

[flagged]

No, there wasn’t - your rivers were catching fire

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cuyahoga-river-caught...

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#965

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could go the other way. All agencies answer to the President. The President could just scrap all regulations or just not enforce them.

> All agencies answer to the President Not independent agencies [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Un...

"Generally, the heads of independent regulatory agencies can only be removed for cause, but Cabinet members and heads of independent executive agencies, such as the head of the Environmental Protection Agency, serve "at the pleasure of the president" and can be removed without cause."

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#966

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could go the other way. All agencies answer to the President. The President could just scrap all regulations or just not enforce them.

OH! I remember what this sounds like! This sounds like Brexit! People I spoke to said “it could go the other way”. Not only was it an impossibility, it was a prayer that the entire country could get lucky. To which I raise you the 2008 crisis and the defanging of the SEC. Since it looks like people want to neuter weather agencies, I believe its going to be a fascinating couple of years.

I don't think having some sort of philosopher kings bureaucrats is better just because you disagree with some democratic choices

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#967
post #961
post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fundamentally there’s nothing wrong with the position of supreme court to push the responsibility of lawmaking back on congress. It would literally be impossible for congress to make a law covering every single nuance agencies are tasked with. This Supreme Court knows it. This is nothing more than deregulation on a scale not seen in modern American history. When you can’t find clean drinking water in 30 years, this…

This case is about whose interpretation gets to fill in the gaps. The statute (APA) requires courts to form an independent judgment about the gaps. The Chevron doctrine required courts in certain cases to set this judgment aside in favor of an agency’s judgment—-basically on the basis that the agencies are closer to the problems and know better. This setting aside may be the better outcome, however it is not explicit…

[dead]

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#968

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The court decided this on statutory grounds because that's what this court likes to do: base decisions on the narrowest grounds possible. But it mentioned Marbury quite prominently and it's pretty clear that the court will not sustain a law that codifies Chevron.

I suppose Congress could use its power under Article III’s Exceptions Clause to strip the federal courts (including the Supreme Court) of jurisdiction to hear cases challenging an agency’s adherence to its enabling statute. Courts would still always be able to hear constitutional challenges, of course.

Or go the European way and require regulations to explicitly list which act(s) of Congress they are based on.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#969

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would literally be impossible for congress to make a law covering every single nuance agencies are tasked with. What does that even mean? Supposedly these agencies already know what they're tasked with, no? If not... well I mean that's straight up irresponsible. The other part of this I don't get is that people have been complaining about the "Revolving Door" problem in these agencies for a long time now. They'r…

> > It would literally be impossible for congress to make a law covering every single nuance agencies are tasked with. > What does that even mean? Supposedly these agencies already know what they're tasked with, no? If not... well I mean that's straight up irresponsible. It means the supreme court just gutted the agencies ability to make and enforce regulations. The agencies have lots of experts who know what they're…

It’s worth pointing out the irony of this position, which is that liberals decried Chevron at the time it was decided because it required deferring to a narrow interpretation of the Clean Air Act by the Reagan EPA. Progressive organizations are always suing the EPA, because regulatory agencies are inherently centrist and resist change in either direction.

What this decision means is that Sierra Club, NRDC, etc., can now litigate in the Ninth Circuit and push for more favorable interpretations of environmental laws. And the next Republican administration can’t take that away, the way they could under Chevron, which allowed agencies to change their interpretation of the same law for no reason.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#970

Congress can actually legislate the right of agencies to interpret the gaps in the laws back into effect - by passing a law that explicitly gives agencies this power. Just like congress can legislate abortion laws rather than leaving it to judicial precedence. Fundamentally there’s nothing wrong with the position of supreme court to push the responsibility of lawmaking back on congress.

> Congress can actually legislate the right of agencies to interpret the gaps in the laws back into effect - by passing a law that explicitly gives agencies this power. What would such a law look like? Let's pretend we're in congress and want to pass a law limiting pollution in lakes and rivers. One option would be to have a bunch of experts tell us what we should explicitly ban and write those into the law. This opt…

Easy, like we do in Europe, by amending the constitution to explicitly allow the Congress to statutorily authorise administrative regulations within the bounds as delegated by the statute.
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