Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine • Hacker News Board

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#771

Post by quickthrowman » Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 10:05 PM UTC

Gormo wrote: post #749

jameshart wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Combined with yesterday’s ruling on administrative courts, this amounts to a massive increase in the role of the federal judiciary in the execution of government action. By 2040 the normal procedure every April will be, rather than filing a tax return, filing a suit in federal court disputing the right of the IRS to determine whether your income is actually ‘income’. Eighty federalist society AI lawbots will automati…

> Combined with yesterday’s ruling on administrative courts, this amounts to a massive increase in the role of the federal judiciary in the execution of government action. Sounds great. How we got to the point where executive-branch agencies were making rules with the force of law, binding upon the public with no judicial oversight, is a mystery to me, but it's good to see that the courts are taking their responsibil…

It’s not a mystery, Congress delegated their authority to the executive branch willingly.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#772

Post by cryptonector » Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 10:07 PM UTC

MR4D wrote: post #458

Congress can’t write good laws (good = clean, unambiguous) due to a variety of reasons, most of which are just political and not practical reasons. Here’s hoping this decision causes Congress to write laws with more clarity now that they cannot be as sloppy and get away with it. There may be much upheaval in the short term, but for that reason alone, I think it will have a positive impact on the country. One other re…

You imply that Chevron is a big reason for why Congress has become ineffective. I think you're right.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#773

Post by cryptonector » Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 10:07 PM UTC

HDThoreaun wrote: post #305

GenerWork wrote: post #86

This is unbelievably good news! It's time to move power out of the hands of bureaucrats back into Congress where it belongs.

Congress is one of the least effective institutions in this country

Because of Chevron.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#774

Post by VincentEvans » Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 10:08 PM UTC

azemetre wrote: post #717

VincentEvans wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not surprised that conservative-leaning court has put their finger on the scale of what they always described as “activism of agencies” and “legislating from the bench” by pushing the congress to act - I see it as consistent with conservative principles. I am not saying I agree with it or condemn it - rather stating the path forward. I too would like congress to start acting the part. They have the tools.

How do you expect Congress to legislate when one side refuses to legislate?

Congress also possesses a variety of tools to limit obstructionism if it so desires.

But a more important point - is that congress is a tool of democracy itself and is a reflection of the attitudes and desires of the populace. If populace no longer has the aptitude to apply its rights to elect the government that serves its interests - then it will experience the consequences of such negligence and learn from them, which is also its right.

Refusing it that right is something much worse - authoritarianism when an individual or a group gets to pick winners or losers.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#775

Post by cryptonector » Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 10:09 PM UTC

neaden wrote: post #3

This court continues to make decisions that might be defensible if you were making them for the first time, but go against decades of precedent in which time many laws have been written on the assumption that things would work a certain way. For a group that claims to be holding to tradition they sure are willing to throw things into chaos.

You should read Gorsuch's concurrence. It's all about the meaning of "common law" and "stare decisis". It's quite educational and even eye opening.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#776

Post by edmundsauto » Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 10:11 PM UTC

s1k3s wrote: post #735

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's exactly how it works. The US Supreme Court can rule a law unconstitutional, and that's that.

So basically it's the same as here, the supreme court (which is appointed, not elected) has power over elected officials? (Because they can decide what is constitutional or not) Edit: I have more questions but for some reason I can't reply to your replies :(

The US Supreme Court can decide what is constitutional, and Congress can amend the constitution that is the basis for the USSC decision (with 2/3 vote).

With the current makeup of Congress, it is unlikely so the USSC holds significantly more effective power than if it had a functioning Congress.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#777

Post by cryptonector » Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 10:11 PM UTC

raytopia wrote: post #13

How much is this going to mess up the ability for the federal government to operate?

Barely at all. The federal government will continue operating 99% exactly as before. A few controversial agency decisions will get reviewed and overturned, and Congress might even address those specifically in legislation, and even better, Congress might write better legislation. We'll see agencies lobbying Congress, too. But that's it. Few will even notice.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#778

Post by cryptonector » Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 10:11 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #500

This would be less of a problem if Congress was more active at drafting and passing bills. We got into this mess because Congress stalled out.

Chevron arguably helped Congress shirk its responsibility.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#779

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 10:13 PM UTC

bell-cot wrote: post #93

Before proclaiming that this outcome is horrible - Please consider that the Good Guys (your opinion) might not win the election in November. And that you might not want the courts auto-deferring to all the plausible-ish interpretations of ambiguous laws which gov't agency officials appointed by the Bad Guys (your opinion) might suddenly add the Official Agency Interpretations next year.

[deleted]

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#780

Post by avar » Fri, Jun 28, 2024, 10:14 PM UTC

tstrimple wrote: post #723

tiahura wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would a random person have standing?

Standing doesn’t matter. A conservative website creator was able to take a case all the way up to the Supreme Court without ever have been sued. They just made up a situation where an alleged customer demanded they make a gay website. The customer never even existed. This is on top of the Supreme Court literally legalizing bribing of government officials across the country as long as the payment is made after the fav…

That website creator sued their state's regulatory agency, and "sufficiently demonstrated both an intent to provide graphic and web design services to the public in a manner that exposes them to [Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act] liability, and a credible threat that Colorado will prosecute them under that statute."[1]

Yes, the alleged "situation" may have been contrived, but that doesn't change whether they have standing to sue their state to challenge what they see as an unconstitutional law.

Do you think their only recourse should be to break the law, and risk the penalties associated with that if it does turn out to be constitutional?

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/303_Creative_LLC_v._Elenis