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The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

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Re: The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

#21
post #7

I speak native English, fluent German and beginning Dutch. A few years ago I picked up a Yiddish primer. In my layman's eyes, Yiddish is indisputably a Germanic language. Learning it was like learning to read German backwards in Hebrew letters. I understand why Yiddish speakers would not want to believe Yiddish is Germanic. And yet...

Having grown up as an American Jew, it has been a recurring revelation of how much of what I think if as "Jewish" culture is actually German.

Re: The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

#22
post #14

The Jerusalem Post on Yiddish.[1] Yiddish speakers today are mostly ultra-orthodox Jews. The language binds them together across country boundaries, and cuts them off from the surrounding society. Even in Israel, which runs on Hebrew. This is recently relevant as the Israeli Supreme Court recently ruled that the draft exemption for the ultra-orthodox must end.[2] Many will speak only Yiddish. The IDF has a crash one…

Why is the word “supposedly” in your comment?

Is there some implication that these people are doing something else? If there is no implication then there’s no need to include this word.

Re: The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

#23
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they wouldn't, because the only person who suggests that Knaanic was ancestral to Yiddish, rather than having been displaced by it, is Wexler. Who is an unpleasant and academically dishonest crank, who, in addition to his discredited linguistic views, makes claims about the ethnic origins of the Ashkenazim which were always on shaky ground, and which have been conclusively disproven by modern genetic analysis. No…

I didn’t say it was ancestral, more like German Jews saw Knaanic and were inspired to create their own language.

I'm saying that discussions of the origins of Yiddish do not cover Knaanic because it isn't a part of the origin of Yiddish. No different from Judeo-Arabic in that sense: an interesting topic in its own right, just not relevant.

> German Jews saw Knaanic and were inspired to create their own language

This is... not how it works. I know of only one case of "inspired to create their own language" in all of history, and it's Modern Hebrew. Which is a revival, not de novo.

Re: The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

#24
post #7

I speak native English, fluent German and beginning Dutch. A few years ago I picked up a Yiddish primer. In my layman's eyes, Yiddish is indisputably a Germanic language. Learning it was like learning to read German backwards in Hebrew letters. I understand why Yiddish speakers would not want to believe Yiddish is Germanic. And yet...

As a speaker of Viennese German and English, I have no problem understanding spoken Yiddish.

I also would say Viennese sounds especially close to Yiddish.

Re: The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

#25
post #14

The Jerusalem Post on Yiddish.[1] Yiddish speakers today are mostly ultra-orthodox Jews. The language binds them together across country boundaries, and cuts them off from the surrounding society. Even in Israel, which runs on Hebrew. This is recently relevant as the Israeli Supreme Court recently ruled that the draft exemption for the ultra-orthodox must end.[2] Many will speak only Yiddish. The IDF has a crash one…

The Haredi know Hebrew. They spend all day every day reading and debating texts written in Hebrew…

Some speak perfect conversational Hebrew in a standard Israeli accent but switch to an Ashenazi/Yiddish accent in biblical or liturgical contexts. Pretty cool actually.

Re: The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

#26
post #14

The Jerusalem Post on Yiddish.[1] Yiddish speakers today are mostly ultra-orthodox Jews. The language binds them together across country boundaries, and cuts them off from the surrounding society. Even in Israel, which runs on Hebrew. This is recently relevant as the Israeli Supreme Court recently ruled that the draft exemption for the ultra-orthodox must end.[2] Many will speak only Yiddish. The IDF has a crash one…

Why is the word “supposedly” in your comment? Is there some implication that these people are doing something else? If there is no implication then there’s no need to include this word.

I guess the parent is implying that there are some people who use their supposed desire to study Torah to hide from IDF conscription.

Re: The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

#27
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a speaker of Viennese German and English, I have no problem understanding spoken Yiddish.

I also would say Viennese sounds especially close to Yiddish.

A lot of words and expressions in the old Viennese dialect are Yiddish, though that dialect has all but disappeared from day to day interactions (you can find it in old movies and recordings).

Re: The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

#28
post #7

I speak native English, fluent German and beginning Dutch. A few years ago I picked up a Yiddish primer. In my layman's eyes, Yiddish is indisputably a Germanic language. Learning it was like learning to read German backwards in Hebrew letters. I understand why Yiddish speakers would not want to believe Yiddish is Germanic. And yet...

Having grown up as an American Jew, it has been a recurring revelation of how much of what I think if as "Jewish" culture is actually German.

Would it be crazy to call Judaism in 1920s Germany basically like a German subculture of people who are ethnically German and speak a variation of the language? I’ve met so many other Jews (that fled Germany originally) that to me are basically German (even have German last names).

Re: The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yiddish wasn’t a created language.

You know what I mean.

I think that's a genuine dispute, because people consciously deciding to make a new language is a relatively rare phenomenon. Most language change is informal and unplanned.

Re: The Origins of Yiddish (2014)

#30
post #7

I speak native English, fluent German and beginning Dutch. A few years ago I picked up a Yiddish primer. In my layman's eyes, Yiddish is indisputably a Germanic language. Learning it was like learning to read German backwards in Hebrew letters. I understand why Yiddish speakers would not want to believe Yiddish is Germanic. And yet...

Having grown up as an American Jew, it has been a recurring revelation of how much of what I think if as "Jewish" culture is actually German.

Was in Poland over the summer and, as a Jew of Ashkenazi heritage, I felt right at home culinarily (except for the pork).
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