Live data from Hacker News

Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

axios.com

321–330 of 1001 posts

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#321
post #99

I'm impressed that they can so easily dispose of 40 years of law making by Congress that assumed that agencies would interpret the statutes and make rules for regulating their area of authority. Now Congress is going to have to specify every possible consequence of laws in the statutes, otherwise a judge will decide. So agencies will not have any power to actually regulate. Awesome logic work, but terrible legal thin…

What side effects?

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#322

Devastating that expertise will no longer influence the application of law and policy. The biggest question is who will interpret the application of law? Will it be challenged in court once again until a clear statement is made? Meanwhile, what will be the effects of this “deregulation” until a clear statement is made

It's not about the application of law. It's about the ambiguity of law. If anything, they'll need to rely on more expertise now, so they can craft laws that aren't open to interpretation. This is a fantastic decision on the part of the court.

>so they can craft laws that aren't open to interpretation.

In what world is this even humanly possible? Is this something conservatives actually believe can happen? If so, then they're irrational almost beyond repair.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#323

This seems like the judicial branch just voted to give itself substantially more power. Are there any checks against this? Or can justices just keep granting themselves more powers and invalidating any restraints?

Chevron has only been around since 1984. What was done previously?

Arguably the same thing, from wikipedia:

> Chevron is probably the most frequently cited case in American administrative law,[16] but some scholars suggest that the decision has had little impact on the Supreme Court's jurisprudence and merely clarified the Court's existing approach.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#324

This seems like the judicial branch just voted to give itself substantially more power. Are there any checks against this? Or can justices just keep granting themselves more powers and invalidating any restraints?

Chevron has only been around since 1984. What was done previously?

the company, or the case?

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#325
post #54

I was curious about cases where this played a role. Looks like the namesake case was about EPA Clean Air Act enforcement in the 80s (the outcome being regulation), and then an FCC ruling to classify internet providers as “information services” rather than “telecommunication services” and avoid stricter regulation (the outcome being deregulation). Overall, it seems the Chevron deference was a cornerstone of administra…

Until today, most national policy was set by "experts," i.e., people whose careers, professional reputation, and emotional bonds are bound up in the industry. That is to say, the rich and connected in any given area of life. The SEC is staffed with "experts" in exchanging securities, i.e., successful traders, who are then expected to govern traders. The inexorable result of this status quo is corruption and oligarchy…

Ironic that you link to an article about the Gilens/Page study, which showed that it was in large part Congress that was unresponsive to popular opinion, not federal agencies like the SEC.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#326

This seems like the judicial branch just voted to give itself substantially more power. Are there any checks against this? Or can justices just keep granting themselves more powers and invalidating any restraints?

It will force Congress to act rather than allowing agencies to lurk in the shadows.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#327

This seems like the judicial branch just voted to give itself substantially more power. Are there any checks against this? Or can justices just keep granting themselves more powers and invalidating any restraints?

> "This seems like the judicial branch just voted to give itself substantially more power. Are there any checks against this?" Yes, absolutely. Congress can do their job and write the laws instead of delegating their authority to the Executive Branch.

It seems crazy that Congress does not have the authority to delegate implementation details to experts. I just don't see anything in the Constitution that forbids that.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#328

The basic trend in America has been to defer power to an administrative state beholden to the Executive. This accumulation of power has the basic effect of enabling tyranny. To prevent tyranny it is necessary to check this concerning accumulation of Executive power.

Does this decision do that, or does it just move the accumulation of power to a different branch? From bureaucrats who can be fired to unelected judges with lifetime tenure. How would you argue that this is an improvement? The response may be that Congress makes far more specific legislation, along with all the weird pitfalls that will come from that, and outsources the actual text to corporate lobbyists. That seems…

It's not moving power from the executive to the judicial branch, it's forcing legislative responsibility back on Congress.

Note that constituents in the U.S. have the worst representation of any OECD country. Worse than Commie China. America's biggest problem is the "Permanent" Apportionment Act of 1929.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#329
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the application of law. It's about the ambiguity of law. If anything, they'll need to rely on more expertise now, so they can craft laws that aren't open to interpretation. This is a fantastic decision on the part of the court.

>so they can craft laws that aren't open to interpretation. In what world is this even humanly possible? Is this something conservatives actually believe can happen? If so, then they're irrational almost beyond repair.

Algorithmic law? It's what we've been [weakly] doing for millennia.

Re: Supreme Court overturns 40-year-old "Chevron deference" doctrine

#330
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This Court has long understood Chevron deference to reflect what Congress would want, and so to be rooted in a presumption of legislative intent. Congress knows that it does not—in fact cannot—write perfectly complete regulatory statutes... I really hope she meant to convey a different point here, because it reads as if congress doesn't care and wants unelected bureaucrats figuring out what laws mean because they t…

I would much rather unelected bureaucrat scientists decide how to implement the intent and application of laws than congress.

You hake no reason to assume that. The people who will try to write those regulations are those with have an angle. We call it regulatory capture.
Post reply on HN