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FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

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Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#481

Post by ensignavenger »

mathgeek wrote: post #448
quietbritishjim wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that's the sort of thing that the FDA were complaining about. From TFA: > FDA officials acknowledged Tuesday that statements that a product “may contain” certain allergens “could be considered truthful and not misleading.”

The "may contain" line is not the part that the FDA takes issues with. From the source complaint: > The Brownberry brand Whole Grains 12 Grains and Seeds RTE bread loaf product is misbranded for a similar reason; the product label includes walnuts, almonds, and hazelnuts in the ingredient and “Contains” statements; however, these nuts are not ingredients in the formulation of the product. Emphasis on "Contains", whic…

It isn't part of this complaint, however the FDA regulation explicitly says that labeling food with "may contains" is not good enough for major allergen cross contamination, which is why companies added them to the "contains" section, and why some companies are actually mixing allergens into he ingredients so they can legally add them to the contains section. (In this case, the bakery appears to have just added the allergens to the contains section without actually adding them).

The FDA should either 1) Allow the use of "may contains" for major allergen cross contamination. Or) Create a new category, such as "Possible cross contamination" that would be considered good enough. This would remove the incentive to deliberately add allergens while allowing proper labeling.

However, there are some lobbyist groups that want to force companies to use separate factories for any foods that contain major allergens, making those foods cost substantially more than they do now to produce. So the of us without allergens can either eat tasteless sterile food (likely leading to more folks with food allergies do a lack of exposure), or to pay out the wazoo for the privilege of eating normal food.

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#482

Post by Miner49er »

jcl wrote: post #369
Molitor5901 wrote: post #15

This seems like splitting hairs on the part of the FDA. FDA officials acknowledged Tuesday that statements that a product “may contain” certain allergens “could be considered truthful and not misleading.” Bimbo officials have until July 8 to identify steps taken to remedy the issue — or to explain why the labeling doesn't violate FDA standards. So a baker.. who adds (insert allergy ingredient here), in minute quantit…

My understanding of the article is that some companies added sesame to their products and ingredients label, while others may have changed their label to say the product “may contain” sesame — but that Bimbo did neither of these things, instead changing their label to say that the product definitely contained sesame, when in fact sesame was not an ingredient.

Exactly, most commenters here don't seem to understand this or understand how FDA allergen labelling works. Bimbo would be fine if they just used a "may contains" or actually added sesame to their products (although the FDA doesn't like this.)

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#483

Post by ensignavenger »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #380
aiauthoritydev wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The safest thing to do is to actually add the allergens to some degree and then warn people.

But that’s such a pain in the but for those of us with a mild sesame problem. If it says “may contain” then I’m fine. If it’s listed as an ingredient then I can’t risk having it. For people who can’t have any at all you’ve not improved the situation but at the cost of making it significantly worse for people with a mild reaction.

The FDA doesn't allow "may contains" for possible major allergen cross contamination. If the allergen is listed as "may contain" the FDA still requires all of the same costly manufacturing separation practices.

The FDA should either allow "may contains" labels to be used, or create a new category that can be used.

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#484

Post by quickthrowman »

forgetfreeman wrote: post #349
NaOH wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren’t food prep areas when it comes to manufacturing at this scale. There are silos, storage tanks, essentially duct work to transport ingredients from bulk storage to production, and large-scale machinery which is designed to minimize exposure to the environment and people while in use. That’s putting aside the equipment and facilities used to acquire ingredients or store products after production. Yes, all o…

So we're saying what, in an era of atomic scale manufacturing it isn't possible to design a manufacturing line that segregates macro-scale ingredients? I've spent time in pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities. They don't routinely floof active ingredients between capsule lines. Corraling shit the size of a sesame seed is trivial in comparison. So yeah, this is still bullshit.

It’s entirely possible, all you need is a separate factory to make products for 0.3% of the population, in every geographical region you bake bread in.

The reason they aren’t doing it is cost, not practicality.

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#485

Post by marshray »

stoperaticless wrote: post #341
marshray wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's exactly what strawmanning is: "Ignore the stated argument, discuss my weaker mischaracterization of it instead."

Have you cooked anything? Have you never ever had a hair fall into a pot your mixing? (Even if you always wear a hat, and always clean it before hand, there is non zero chance) Spirit of that previous parent message was that “never ever contaminated” is not a realistic option. Yes op stretched that to molecules, but exactly same argument applies to seeds. I guess you forbid any kind of hyperbole in 50m radius.

I have worked in food service and we were required to wear hats or hairnets specifically for that reason. If it had happened that some foreign material had fallen in the food, we would have considered it a big problem.

In restaurants, little pieces from the metal pot scrubbing pads tend to be a constant problem. But this represents a cost choice: more expensive scrubbing solutions are available.

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#487

Post by jjallen »

lukan wrote: post #323
kragen wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, until now, bimbo's breads were sesame-free, and now they'll presumably have sesame in them. so people in the usa with sesame allergies will have to cook their own bread at home now, unless they're lucky enough to have access to a small artisanal bakery

"will have to cook their own bread at home now" Serious question as a non native english speaker, is this a correct way of saying it? I think bread is usually baked in an oven ..

"will have to bake their own bread at home now" would be the most correct way of saying it IMO (native American)

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#488

Post by quickthrowman »

lukan wrote: post #327
shiroiushi wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, almost all food these days is an "industrial product" at some point in the pipeline. That's the reality of living in an industrial society and not an agrarian one.

Not at all. Even in this industrial society it is possible to buy raw ingredients and cook yourself and many people do it. (and as far as I know, many studies imply that is healthier, than heavily processed food, filled with conservatives, additives and whatever)

Any flour you purchase was processed by Cargill, ADM, or Bunge (or on their behalf). I’m sure there’s artisan grains available for a premium price, but virtually all commodity crops are processed by the big 3 agribusinesses.

It is impossible to avoid industrial food processing unless you grow it yourself.

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#489

Post by fullspectrumdev »

robertlagrant wrote: post #343
VBprogrammer wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding an allergen in quantities where it has no meaningful effect is attempting to flout a regulation. It's like bringing money into the country by spitting it among fellow travellers. In a functioning system the authorities would have the power to investigate and use discovery to identify cases where allergens are being added deliberately for no other reason than flouting rules. They should then be able to issue su…

It's not flouting a regulation at all. It's the opposite of flouting. It's complying.

“Malicious compliance” can be read as “flouting” in some cases.

Eg: transaction structuring which is illegal in most places.

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#490

Post by lukan »

WrongAssumption wrote: post #378
lukan wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still an small oven, not a cooking pot .. (some bread you can also make in a pan, but you cannot cook bread in my understanding)

Cooking is just the application of heat. Baking is the application of dry heat. Baking is a subset of cooking.

In german, the literal translation of cooking is "kochen" and that involves boiling things.
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