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AI can beat real university students in exams, study suggests

bbc.co.uk

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Re: AI can beat real university students in exams, study suggests

#21

Post by [deleted] »

nradov wrote: post #19
bee_rider wrote: post #5

Worrying that AI might make exams obsolete is kind of odd, I mean, it is a symptom I guess but only at the very end of a long stupid cascading failure. Students cheat because they want the degree but don’t care to learn the material. Or maybe they want to learn the material, but see employment at the end as requiring better grades than they can get naturally. Either one is the result of bullshit credentialism. (Bulls…

Credentialism isn't really bullshit. For any decent entry-level job there will be an enormous surplus of applicants (elite overproduction). It isn't practical to evaluate them all in detail, the hiring managers simply don't have time. So they fall back on simple, somewhat arbitrary factors like educational degrees, school rankings, and GPA. It's imperfect but what else can work at scale?

[deleted]

Re: AI can beat real university students in exams, study suggests

#22

Post by NoPicklez »

bee_rider wrote: post #5

Worrying that AI might make exams obsolete is kind of odd, I mean, it is a symptom I guess but only at the very end of a long stupid cascading failure. Students cheat because they want the degree but don’t care to learn the material. Or maybe they want to learn the material, but see employment at the end as requiring better grades than they can get naturally. Either one is the result of bullshit credentialism. (Bulls…

Grades are something useful for students as a way to evaluate their progress and get feedback.

Anytime you implement a way of demonstrating someone's competence on a scale (GPA etc) you will have some companies that target the higher end of that scale.

I don't think cheating will result in grades becoming something useful for students. If they're useful for students in showing how they demonstrate performance, employers will use that to set a baseline for expected competency.

The only way to remove that is to not have a GPA type metric but more of a pass/fail metric that puts all graduates on an equal level.

Re: AI can beat real university students in exams, study suggests

#23

Post by fooker »

meristohm wrote: post #4

Can "educated machines" reproduce on their own yet? How do they fit into the food web, the carbon cycle, the nitrogen cycle, etc? Can they make meaning, towards a purpose in life? What role do they serve other than human ingenuity ego-stroking and for a few to further extract money from the many? Can AI love, yet? To what degree are we just avoiding dealing with existential threats by churning through resources to pl…

I don't know what AI can or can not do, but it's getting good enough that I can't tell if this is written by ChatGPT.

If you can't pass the Turing test, setting higher bars for AI doesn't make sense.

Re: AI can beat real university students in exams, study suggests

#24

Post by financltravsty »

nradov wrote: post #19
bee_rider wrote: post #5

Worrying that AI might make exams obsolete is kind of odd, I mean, it is a symptom I guess but only at the very end of a long stupid cascading failure. Students cheat because they want the degree but don’t care to learn the material. Or maybe they want to learn the material, but see employment at the end as requiring better grades than they can get naturally. Either one is the result of bullshit credentialism. (Bulls…

Credentialism isn't really bullshit. For any decent entry-level job there will be an enormous surplus of applicants (elite overproduction). It isn't practical to evaluate them all in detail, the hiring managers simply don't have time. So they fall back on simple, somewhat arbitrary factors like educational degrees, school rankings, and GPA. It's imperfect but what else can work at scale?

Sounds like a "just-so story."

Credentialism is still around due to inertia, not any conscious thought or decision-making. Tell your conservative, F500 director you're going to get rid of degree requirements and watch your career evaporate.

Re: AI can beat real university students in exams, study suggests

#25

Post by nradov »

financltravsty wrote: post #24
nradov wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credentialism isn't really bullshit. For any decent entry-level job there will be an enormous surplus of applicants (elite overproduction). It isn't practical to evaluate them all in detail, the hiring managers simply don't have time. So they fall back on simple, somewhat arbitrary factors like educational degrees, school rankings, and GPA. It's imperfect but what else can work at scale?

Sounds like a "just-so story." Credentialism is still around due to inertia, not any conscious thought or decision-making. Tell your conservative, F500 director you're going to get rid of degree requirements and watch your career evaporate.

Nah. Conservative F500 directors are quick to eliminate degree requirements as soon as they have trouble filling a critical req at an acceptable cost. Despite what you might think of those managers they are not financially illiterate.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-degree-job-requirement/

Re: AI can beat real university students in exams, study suggests

#26

Post by financltravsty »

nradov wrote: post #25
financltravsty wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a "just-so story." Credentialism is still around due to inertia, not any conscious thought or decision-making. Tell your conservative, F500 director you're going to get rid of degree requirements and watch your career evaporate.

Nah. Conservative F500 directors are quick to eliminate degree requirements as soon as they have trouble filling a critical req at an acceptable cost. Despite what you might think of those managers they are not financially illiterate. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-degree-job-requirement/

There's so much wrong here; from including a propaganda mill as a source, to that source not affirming your assertions, to not lining up at all with what I've experienced.

Yes, small and medium sized business are slowly removing the degree requirement, but there is no evidence for this in ultra-large international businesses. I'm curious to know how many directors you know at F500, because from my experience they get much less latitude for creativity and risk than their smaller and nimbler competitors.

N.B. No one hires "critical reqs" through normal channels.

Re: AI can beat real university students in exams, study suggests

#27

Post by nradov »

financltravsty wrote: post #26
nradov wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. Conservative F500 directors are quick to eliminate degree requirements as soon as they have trouble filling a critical req at an acceptable cost. Despite what you might think of those managers they are not financially illiterate. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-degree-job-requirement/

There's so much wrong here; from including a propaganda mill as a source, to that source not affirming your assertions, to not lining up at all with what I've experienced. Yes, small and medium sized business are slowly removing the degree requirement, but there is no evidence for this in ultra-large international businesses. I'm curious to know how many directors you know at F500, because from my experience they get…

My experience is different. Know a bunch of F500 directors. I think you're simply wrong in the general case, although you can certainly find some organizations or individual hiring managers where that fits.

Re: AI can beat real university students in exams, study suggests

#28

Post by financltravsty »

nradov wrote: post #27
financltravsty wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's so much wrong here; from including a propaganda mill as a source, to that source not affirming your assertions, to not lining up at all with what I've experienced. Yes, small and medium sized business are slowly removing the degree requirement, but there is no evidence for this in ultra-large international businesses. I'm curious to know how many directors you know at F500, because from my experience they get…

My experience is different. Know a bunch of F500 directors. I think you're simply wrong in the general case, although you can certainly find some organizations or individual hiring managers where that fits.

Very well, then I'll have to be more conscious of the mental model I've built, and test it again.

Re: AI can beat real university students in exams, study suggests

#29

Post by RecycledEle »

Yes, the current crop of world knowledge AIs are smarter than any human who ever lived.

And big names are calling them useless.

This is proof the human race is not generally capable to solving novel problems, so I hope people will stop expecting AIs to solve every novel problem.

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