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Change your Last.fm password

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Re: Change your Last.fm password

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough I opened a new bank account the other day (Chase) and to my surprise they don't allow special characters to be used in the passwords. It indeed appears that the entire system is broken beyond repair. It seems like it is becoming the norm to expect to be exploited at some point so the de-facto preemption is to have someone to blame. As the manager of a datacenter we recently moved into said "we're here…

Many banks are encumbered by old mainframe systems that still do a lot of their computing. I don't know how much of that bubbles up through to the web interfaces we deal with, but I know many tellers and agents are still on green screens, or on interfaces that are just pretty wrappers to mainframe terminals.

I've heard that excuse from banks and such before, and, frankly, I suspect they are lying.

Oh, I fully believe that whatever ancient mainframe they are using might limit passwords to some small number of mono case characters with no funny characters allowed.

However, that would only apply to passwords for mainframe accounts. The bank is NOT going to be creating a login account on the mainframe for each bank customer. Our bank accounts are just entries in an application database on the mainframe.

If there is some kind of per customer password that the mainframe stores with the bank account data and that the online system has to provide when sending transactions to the mainframe, and it has such a limit, and the bank cannot update the application and database for some reason, that still should not be visible to the customer doing online banking.

The part the customer sees online should have its own password database, which allows good passwords, and in there it should have (encrypted!) whatever the ancient limited mainframe password is for that customer's account.

Unless the web interface itself runs on an ancient mainframe, I strongly suspect that there is no acceptable excuse for only allowing short passwords from a limited character set.

Banks are simply not very good at security, or they don't care. Hell, they insist on mailing me things that include my full credit card number, ensuring that someone who wanted to inconvenience me just has to drive by my mailbox at the right time and steal my statement. How freaking hard would it be for them to X out all but the last 4 digits. Yes, that would mean someone whose statement covers multiple cards might have a collision--so don't issue two cards with the same last 4 to two people who receive a joint statement.

Re: Change your Last.fm password

#113

Is there a cryptanalytic reason why a company that has a database full of MD5/SHA1 hashes can't perform a one time upgrade by computing bcrypt(salt, the_old_hash) for every hash they have in the database and then when someone logs in do bcrypt(salt, md5/sha1(password)) to check the password?

That's what I did when I migrated our application to bcrypt some time ago.

I had some questions about whether using an md5sum as the bcrypt input, with much less keyspace (only hex characters) had any impact on security but nobody could/would answer.

I'm guessing that knowing that the plaintext for the bcrypt hash is always going to be 16 characters of 0-9,a-f might have some impact on crypto analysis but considering the passwords most people use I'm guessing it's only going to be a net win in terms of entropy.

Re: Change your Last.fm password

#114

Is there a cryptanalytic reason why a company that has a database full of MD5/SHA1 hashes can't perform a one time upgrade by computing bcrypt(salt, the_old_hash) for every hash they have in the database and then when someone logs in do bcrypt(salt, md5/sha1(password)) to check the password?

I've been wondering the same thing myself recently. I know of a number of legacy systems that could do with this but I'm unsure of how cryptographically safe it is (bcrypting md5. Would love if someone with knowledge in the area could confirm that it's ok.

Re: Change your Last.fm password

#115
I just changed my password and deleted my Last.fm account. Just because I changed my password doesn't mean a new MD5 hash of my new password won't leak tomorrow. If you can't trust the service, don't use the service.

To delete your Last.fm account, go to the "Data" tab in settings. Click on "Delete entire account for user".

Re: Change your Last.fm password

#116
post #90
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get rid of a huge amount of password-related frustration by using a good password manager (not the rinky-dink ones that browsers come built in with). I've been very satisfied with 1Password and I can't imagine going back to not using it.

I've just spent the last couple of hours creating unique longins for every site I can remember having a login for and storing them in Keepass (opensource password safe). The Keepass database is stored on my dropbox account so it's automatically synced to all machines / devices I use. I get the impression this is going to be a bit of a PITA, but with the rate these sites are being breached it's probably a sensible mov…

FWIW, I did this a few years back (with 1Password, after having used Password Gorilla for a while). With the browser integration 1Password (and, I think keypass and lastpass) use, I think it's actually a productivity plus rather than a PITA...

Re: Change your Last.fm password

#117
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll get your username, they might crack your password. Do you use the same password/username combination somewhere else? If not, good for you. You're kind of a rare person.

Yes. That's the point. Not only will they be able to listen to music that I like, they might be able to download MySQL as though they were me or comment on Engadget articles as me. None of which are particularly concerning. Because those are throwaway accounts for me.

Make sure you've got a process in place to at least semi-regularly audit your list of "throwaway accounts".

A long time ago, I signed up to PerkMonks for some unimportant reason. Since it was unimportant then (and still is now) I used my then-standard "throwaway login". Sometime later, and before it became "a thing", I signed up for this new "microblgging service" using my "throwaway login" - it was called Twitter - nobody much had heard of it back then. Fastforward 3 years or so… Twitter had become, while not _important_, at least a place where I consider my personal reputation is important. Shortly after the PerkMonks user database got exposed (with it's cleartext passwords! facepalm!), I got an early morning text message from a friend "Acai berry spam from your Twitter account! Ha ha!" (Thanks Colin… For both the heads-up and the deserved ridicule)

If you're using the same "throwaway" credentials in a bunch of places you consider "unimportant" - make sure you upgrade those to properly secure credentials when the importance of those places changes.

Or better still, get 1Password/KeyPass/LastPass/WhatEver and stop doing that…

Re: Change your Last.fm password

#118
Looks like passwords need to be replaced with something else, obviously most companies, excluding none, are completely unable to handle them properly. Time for a big disruption.

Re: Change your Last.fm password

#119

Is there a cryptanalytic reason why a company that has a database full of MD5/SHA1 hashes can't perform a one time upgrade by computing bcrypt(salt, the_old_hash) for every hash they have in the database and then when someone logs in do bcrypt(salt, md5/sha1(password)) to check the password?

That's what I did when I migrated our application to bcrypt some time ago. I had some questions about whether using an md5sum as the bcrypt input, with much less keyspace (only hex characters) had any impact on security but nobody could/would answer. I'm guessing that knowing that the plaintext for the bcrypt hash is always going to be 16 characters of 0-9,a-f might have some impact on crypto analysis but considering…

Yeah sure, bcrypt(salt, md5/sha1(password)) is in general less "secure" than bcrypt(salt,password)#, it's still more secure than md5/sha1(password).

# Note though, that you need at least 20 printable ascii chars to get the 128 bits of entropy possible in an MD5 hash, so for _most_ passwords, you could optimize your cracker by only bruteforcing bcrypt(salt, md5/sha1(password)) using shorter strings as password guesses rather then needing to bruteforce the whole 128 bit MD5 space. With bcrypt and salt though, that turns into an "only practical for state-level attacker" I think.

Re: Change your Last.fm password

#120
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many banks are encumbered by old mainframe systems that still do a lot of their computing. I don't know how much of that bubbles up through to the web interfaces we deal with, but I know many tellers and agents are still on green screens, or on interfaces that are just pretty wrappers to mainframe terminals.

I've heard that excuse from banks and such before, and, frankly, I suspect they are lying. Oh, I fully believe that whatever ancient mainframe they are using might limit passwords to some small number of mono case characters with no funny characters allowed. However, that would only apply to passwords for mainframe accounts. The bank is NOT going to be creating a login account on the mainframe for each bank customer.…

The reason they don't allow special characters is to prevent situations where the customer has forgotten his password and needs to go through an excruciating verification process to access his own account.
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