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FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

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Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#311

Post by wolpoli »

aiauthoritydev wrote: post #297
kevinventullo wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t this open up the market for a newcomer to make verified sesame-free bread?

Yes it does. It also good for the people with allergies as they can confidently buy that bread. When FDA declares a new allergen, the top lawyer of the company that has presence from NY to SF seats down with the CEO, they then ask all the manufacturing units to do an audit of the said allergen use and then hire a third party auditor to verify if the allergen is used at all not just at their retail locations but in th…

> For a large company this is a millions of dollars

The FDA was expecting that companies spend millions to ensure that the products are free of sesame to help people with allergies, but companies realize that it's easier to just add sesame into their products.

I am not sure the government could do now to help people with sesame allergies. Ban sesame outright from certain products? Mandate that certain companies produce sesame-free products?

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#312

Post by [deleted] »

marshray wrote: post #307
kalleboo wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one wins by some percentage of the population having to bake their own bread Doesn't the rest of the population win by being able to buy cheaper bread, at the cost of the affected?

Personally, I don't think bread made in a facility that can't control the ingredients is a 'win' at any price.

[deleted]

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#313

Post by Animats »

isoprophlex wrote: post #253
NaOH wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren’t food prep areas when it comes to manufacturing at this scale. There are silos, storage tanks, essentially duct work to transport ingredients from bulk storage to production, and large-scale machinery which is designed to minimize exposure to the environment and people while in use. That’s putting aside the equipment and facilities used to acquire ingredients or store products after production. Yes, all o…

> These are factories where product assembly happens to involve edible parts. And looking at the picture of the """bread""" at the start of the article, it shows. That's not bread, that's an industrial product.

Yes, and this is what a bakery for basic loaves of bread looks like.[1] And here's one for "artisanal" bread, from the same manufacturer.[2] Notice how similar the processes are. The "artisanal" plant has a few more stations, including a "decoration" station where the sesame seeds, etc. go on top. Artisanal plants tend to be more reconfigurable, the same line can produce a few different products.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvPTD2RF5KM

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWTVkL-f91w

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#314

Post by The_Colonel »

vasco wrote: post #290
jjallen wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s over regulation to everyone who doesn’t have sesame allergies. It’s lifesaving to those that do. Somehow bakeries in Switzerland are doing just fine with sesame being a declared allergen and keeping them separate but American ones just can’t be bothered to handle a life threatening ingredient thoroughly carefully.

It's only lifesaving if you want to risk your life. If I have a deadly allergy I'm staying away from certain food groups and am not going to leave my health in the hands of some crappy labels. Have something else other than bread. That's how many people I know with allergies deal with it and it seems the most reasonable approach. In this day there's so many different foods to eat, its easy to have variety without ris…

It's not like sesame is used only in baked products. Sesame is used in various candies and desserts, as a seasoning for meat, fish, vegetables, even in drinks. I'm not sure if you can eat healthily by excluding all categories of food where sesame might theoretically appear.

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#315

Post by dotancohen »

nox101 wrote: post #298
sangnoir wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your thoughts on mandatory wheelchair ramps, fire extinguishers or AED machines? Most of society won't make use of those either.

I think like everything, there's good and bad. You didn't translate your previous comment into braille so should I sue you for not catering to the needs of my blind mother? Having wheelchair ramps at corners, especially new ones, big chains, large institutions, seems great. Forcing the new 1 person boutique down the street to spend $250k+ to add every possible accommodation for language and accessibility, doesn't see…

Actually, I know of at least one HN user who will read his comment in braille. GP provided plain text, which is accessible to braille screen readers. And HN is hailed in accessibility circles as an extraordinarily accessible website, so has a disproportionately large accessibility user base.

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#316

Post by thworp »

harimau777 wrote: post #229
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If producer A just puts sesame in their products, and that means they can undercut producer B who spends the money to comply with the spirit of the regulation, producer B goes out of business because their expenses are higher. So what do you expect would happen? Consumers like cheaper rather than higher prices, this isn't a new thing.

Pass regulations that prevent producer A from undercutting producer B?

Do you have any idea about how expensive it is to audit your entire supply chain to ensure that it is 100% free of allergens? You'd essentially put that cost onto everyone for the benefit of a small minority. I'm sure you can see why that is a political non-starter.

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#317

Post by [deleted] »

wolpoli wrote: post #311
aiauthoritydev wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it does. It also good for the people with allergies as they can confidently buy that bread. When FDA declares a new allergen, the top lawyer of the company that has presence from NY to SF seats down with the CEO, they then ask all the manufacturing units to do an audit of the said allergen use and then hire a third party auditor to verify if the allergen is used at all not just at their retail locations but in th…

> For a large company this is a millions of dollars The FDA was expecting that companies spend millions to ensure that the products are free of sesame to help people with allergies, but companies realize that it's easier to just add sesame into their products. I am not sure the government could do now to help people with sesame allergies. Ban sesame outright from certain products? Mandate that certain companies produ…

[deleted]

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#318

Post by beAbU »

lpolovets wrote: post #117

My understanding is this allergen over-labeling was inspired by the FDA in the first place. https://www.fastcompany.com/90830854/sesame-seed-allergen-fd... From the linked article (from Jan 2023): But sesame does differ in one distinct way from eggs, peanuts, shellfish, milk, and soy: The seeds are teeny tiny and hard to keep track of. This means they’re prone to “cross-contamination,” in food-allergy terms. If you o…

(Non US)

On almost all food labels that I've seen for the last decade or so I've seen disclaimers like "this product is made in a factory that processes $ALLERGEN"

Usually $ALLERGEN is "tree nuts".

Re: FDA warns top U.S. bakery not to claim foods contain allergens when they don't

#320

Post by sakjur »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #224
moregrist wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent of a child with a severe sesame allergy, you clearly don’t understand food allergies and how severe they can be. If my child ingests sesame, they go into anaphylactic shock and without an epipen administered in minutes they will die. There are definitely questions of how to best inform consumers that have severe food allergies. But I’ve been really underwhelmed with the dialog here on this. It would be lo…

No, you don't have a right to buy bread in your situation. Take responsibility, assume labels lie, and bake all the bread yourself.

If we’re starting going down this path, what if the flour also lie and mix in an unknown quantity of sesame? Should families have to devolve into living in a feudal pocket society?

I think it’s fair for the regulator to be hard on lying on food labels. That seems like a rather low bar for a functional modern society. As consumers, we can also ask companies to provide additional services. There’s nothing irresponsible or entitled in politely asking for accommodation from providers or empathy from peers.

And unless there’s an edit that I’m missing, the person you’re responding to explicitly expressed a desire rather than tried to claim a right.

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