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Dear Heroku: Quit blaming all of us when you fail. Do this instead…

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Re: Dear Heroku: Quit blaming all of us when you fail. Do this instead…

#81
post #71

Bullshit. It's your fault. I'm your user, you took my money. We're done here. Everything is your fault.

This is a poor response: Abusive, insulting and makes only a token effort to advance the discussion. Does the fact that it sits at the top of the page mean that it's the most highly rated? And in practical terms, it seems totally theoretical. In my experience, more information is always valuable. It's not a matter of shifting responsibility, it's a matter of understanding what the problem is and efficiently getting i…

I apologize if anyone felt it was abusive or insulting, it certainly wasn't intended that way. I'm very passionate about holding myself directly accountable for the entirety of my user's experience with what they paid me for. It's possible that the message suggested by the OP would improve the user's experience, but I don't see how and the OP didn't make a case for that.

Instead the article read to me as if the benefit of displaying this message is that the user's frustration might be allowed to shift to the sub-contracted vendor. I find it hard not to be infuriated by that idea.

And yeah, I think it means it's the most highly rated... or at least something very close to that.

Re: Dear Heroku: Quit blaming all of us when you fail. Do this instead…

#82
post #80
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only gripe with the heroku app error page is it doesn't show your companies branding. I would like to be able to upload a static fail page with a generic message for my customers. Heck, let me specify a URL to redirect to when Heroku crashes.

That was my first through as well. I was thinking "why is this author demanding that Heroku put their brand on his app's error messages?"

[deleted]

Re: Dear Heroku: Quit blaming all of us when you fail. Do this instead…

#83
post #68

Bullshit. It's your fault. I'm your user, you took my money. We're done here. Everything is your fault.

When you go to a restaurant to get lunch, and they are closed due to a power failure, do you blame them?

I agree with the other commenter that the analogies are getting stretched but I'll bite:

1. You haven't paid them for anything yet.

2. Wrong question!!! It's an opportunity. If I showed up for lunch and despite power being out (probably on the entire block or neighborhood) the proprietors were set up outside making cold sandwiches next to a sign that said "Sorry, power's out so only egg salad" I'd be thrilled. Here are people single-mindedly devoted to my experience.

That's really my point. It's an attitude problem. I want to spend my money with people who hustle when it hurts, and I want to do that for my users. I'm not saying it's not "fair" to close shop and blame the other guy. Sure it's fair, but the person who cares more is gonna eat (or make, in this analogy) your lunch... and the world will be a better place for it.

Re: Dear Heroku: Quit blaming all of us when you fail. Do this instead…

#84
post #71

Bullshit. It's your fault. I'm your user, you took my money. We're done here. Everything is your fault.

This is a poor response: Abusive, insulting and makes only a token effort to advance the discussion. Does the fact that it sits at the top of the page mean that it's the most highly rated? And in practical terms, it seems totally theoretical. In my experience, more information is always valuable. It's not a matter of shifting responsibility, it's a matter of understanding what the problem is and efficiently getting i…

I believe the key lies in the second sentence, 'Nobody cares why your site is down, and for most sites 99% of your users will have no clue what is meant by "This site is hosted by Heroku"'. My mother wouldn't care whom the hosting provider is nor understand what it is.

Re: Dear Heroku: Quit blaming all of us when you fail. Do this instead…

#85
post #24

As someone who was inconvenienced by the outage, and with no mitigation strategy in place, I DON'T blame Heroku. The weight is placed squarely on me (lone tech in our company) for not having researched how to distribute services alongside Heroku, or fall back to something else, or whatever the proper term is. I've been googling like mad since this morning, finding a few mostly-unanswered StackOverflow questions and a…

Failover across geographically distributed datacenters is a challenge that doesn't get talked about all that much.

As a small company you probably aren't able to easily get your own IP block allocated (that I know of) so BGP [0] isn't really an option and the best you can do is probably DNS switching. Use a good DNS provider and set your TTLs to something low like 30 seconds or 1 minute. Then when you have an outage, change the DNS entry to point to a secondary datacenter, which would have a static error page or a reduced-functionality site. There seems to be some debate around whether low DNS TTLs increase users' request times, but we haven't seen it.

There are some companies that will handle the monitoring and switchover for you (Dyn comes to mind) but we prefer to manually switchover for the time being. We have a Big Red Button sinatra app that reports the status of the site and allows you to fail over to the secondary and recover when the primary returns; I'm planning on open sourcing it once it gets some documentation.

I think the reason failover doesn't get talked about as much in the startup world is just because it's hard to do and the costs are disproportionately high for a small company unless availability is really critical to you. For most people, just using multiple availability zones on EC2 is probably sufficient.

[0] http://ajohnstone.com/achives/high-availability-across-multi...

Re: Dear Heroku: Quit blaming all of us when you fail. Do this instead…

#86
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continue in that vein, then if there is a natural disaster then it is their fault as well. The information is useful. Heroku should provide it. We're done here.

Customers usually don't care about the reason for outage. They gave you money. If the service is running, good. If it's not, you screwed up. No matter what actually happened, you should've been prepared. Sad but true.

"No matter what actually happened, you should've been prepared."

This is just plain false. Being prepared comes at a cost. If you over-prepare, then your customers have to pay more for no good reason, and they don't necessarily want to. You have to draw a line and make a judgement call.

There are such things as natural (or political) disasters so serious that it would be extremely stupid to plan for them. And there are other disasters in between this and run of the mill. Again, it's a judgement call. And it's not your "fault" if the customer wants a combination of low price and reliability, and you made a reasonable tradeoff in order to achieve it.

Re: Dear Heroku: Quit blaming all of us when you fail. Do this instead…

#87
post #45

Bullshit. It's your fault. I'm your user, you took my money. We're done here. Everything is your fault.

Continue in that vein, then if there is a natural disaster then it is their fault as well. The information is useful. Heroku should provide it. We're done here.

It is their fault. The company could have used global load balancing with the app hosted in multiple geographically distributed data centers in multiple national jurisdictions through multiple independent providers. This would ensure that the earthquake which leveled Amazon's California data center and the flood which took out Hetzner's data center in Germany and the martial law declaration which took out Linode's Japanese data center and the bankruptcy which closed down Rackspace's Amsterdam data center has no operational impact on Peer1's data center in New York where the service continues uninterrupted. As the data is fully synchronized between all data centers, the company keeps running, all customers are online, and the company can work on setting up additional redundancy in a Canadian data center to make up for the others which were lost.

Yes, this costs money. It's why people accustomed to getting everything for free on the internet can't fathom why larger companies charge six or seven figures for a service that they could roll out themselves by installing an open source package on some Linode VM. If you're paying that kind of money for the reliability, it's because you're extending a promise to your end customers, and the service contract you receive from your provider should come with lots of guarantees and financial penalties if the conditions warranting the price tag aren't met.

Re: Dear Heroku: Quit blaming all of us when you fail. Do this instead…

#88

Bullshit. It's your fault. I'm your user, you took my money. We're done here. Everything is your fault.

you're missing the point

what OP is complaining about is that when Heroku has an outage it says that there's an error within the client's application. I agree that it's the client's responsibility to have an up-and-running app, while the average user doesn't really care what's going on behind the scene, in this case Heroku is still giving out factually wrong and misleading information.

I can imagine users will oftentimes tell Heroku's clients to fix their app when in reality there's nothing they can do.

Re: Dear Heroku: Quit blaming all of us when you fail. Do this instead…

#89
post #62

This is misguided. Nobody cares why your site is down, and for most sites 99% of your users will have no clue what is meant by "This site is hosted by Heroku". And a good chunk of that other 1% isn't even going to bother reading the error text accompanying the whitescreen. In the end, you chose to host your site on a platform that went down. That is just as much your fault as a typo in the code. If you had a setup wi…

I don't think anyone should take it upon themselves to say "Nobody cares" about the relevant details of an error. It's not just an issue of blame, but what the end customer can do with the information. The information that it is the platform that failed temporarily is useful for the end customers because they don't have to lose too much confidence in the software vendor because their code is failing. It lets the customers know the problem is probably temporary. Customers do care because a lot of them can interpret that level of error detail, and it is actionable, useful information to them. Heroku should at least give developers the option of finer grained error messages.

>In the end, you chose to host your site on a platform that went down.

That's only partially true, there are limited viable options for platform hosts out there, and virtually no one has cracked the 100% up-time challenge, so there isn't any degree to which a software developer could choose a host with 100% up-time if it doesn't exist. Thus they're not at fault for choosing the "wrong" host or not creating something that is astronomically difficult themselves.

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