FUCK YOU FOR CENSORING MY COMMENTS. YOU CAN STICK IT UP YOUR ARSES.
Please don't do this here. First, it will get your main account banned as well; and second, you undermine support for your own cause by associating it with such behavior.
Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]
351–360 of 404 posts
Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]
#352Skiming it, it seems that this article doesn't give itself a scoped definition for thought and language, despite pointing the highly polysemic state of these terms.
It's hard to conclude anything on so broad terms.
My perspective is that there are thoughts which are inaccessible to bare spoken language and straight forward access without such a language, and there are thoughts that are unreachable without the relevant language to leverage on.
Moreover I guess that here communication mainly means interpersonal communication, but my bet is that on the median case people use mainly languages as an internal tool to stear the large body of inconsistent thoughts going through their brain toward something consistent enough to be considered by the small part of the mind called attention, which can then try to decide something about it.
At least in my own case, most of my use of language never lead to any utterance. And of course some things I utter obviously lacked thoughtful consideration.
Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know what you mean. What I found very helpful in getting music out of my head via an instrument was a lot of very tedious scale practice, and similar exercises. This appears to get my fingers habituated such that I may often hear a (simple) line on the radio then immediately pick up an instrument and play it.
Hmmm, thanks, maybe I should try that. I wonder if it would help if I wrote a little program that plays short note sequences and then asks me to recreate the sequence (possibly modulo transposition).
You're thinking of ear training software. Lots of those out there.
Your ear (the ability to recognize intervals, scales, chords, chord progressions, rhythms etc) is one of (if not the) your biggest asset as a musician. And it's the only way to get the music out of your head, so cultivate it. Practice practice practice! Don't have to do more than a couple of minutes per day to see some results.
Ear training is something all creative musicians have to do. Many who are self-taught simply do it through picking up other people's tunes by ear (= transcribing), working it out on their instrument, starting with easy stuff and over time learning to "decipher" more difficult pieces. Dedicated ear training can really boost this process.
Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Can one describe the process using any verbal language in sufficient detail such that another master or a robot could create David? Maybe I don't understand why you couldn't use verbal language to instruct a CNC machine?
In the context of the original article in which this whole discussion takes place, I assume we are talking about verbal, natural language. Specifying every little detail would make my comments sound like legalese. To my understanding, this is not a type of natural language the paper discusses: N10 G21 ; Set units to millimeters N20 G17 ; Select XY plane N30 G90 ; Absolute positioning N40 G00 Z5.0 ; Raise Z axis to 5.…
I see ok that makes a lot more sense I wasn't super clear on the distinction between language and natural language.
Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]
#355Different languages may offer unique perspectives
Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]
#356It absolutely melts my mind every time I come across the two facts that: - People experience their thoughts very differently - We all secretly believe that deep down, everyone experiences thought like we do. I've never really had a strong internal monologue when thinking, so my assumption would always be that of course, thinking isn't very linguistic (even if we can use it as a tool while thinking). It seems like the…
Same here. I had a conversation with friends who said, language influences thinking. I said, no, I have thoughts, and I communicate them with language but the thoughts are not language. Later we spoke about being able to have no thoughts - still mind. I said I can do this any time, I can stop the thoughts and be still. At the time I had no training but I could do it for 10, 20, 30 seconds easily. And I knew with trai…
I believe that thoughts exist independently of language
Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]
#357It absolutely melts my mind every time I come across the two facts that: - People experience their thoughts very differently - We all secretly believe that deep down, everyone experiences thought like we do. I've never really had a strong internal monologue when thinking, so my assumption would always be that of course, thinking isn't very linguistic (even if we can use it as a tool while thinking). It seems like the…
This reminds me of this old Feynman video where he talks about how people use different methods in their heads when counting, seems relevant: https://youtu.be/Cj4y0EUlU-Y?t=135
It's so cool! cognitive processes can differ greatly among individuals
Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]
#358I totally agree. Kekulé's discovery of the structure of benzene was in a dream and purely visible. When I still did chemistry (post-doc), much of my thinking was not verbal but "Intuition" (whatever that is). Explaining in words my discoveries was secondary.
Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]
#359[deleted]
Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]
#360I totally agree. Kekulé's discovery of the structure of benzene was in a dream and purely visible. When I still did chemistry (post-doc), much of my thinking was not verbal but "Intuition" (whatever that is). Explaining in words my discoveries was secondary.
How did Kelulé pin down all the details of the dream image?