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Waymo One is now open to everyone in San Francisco

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621–630 of 651 posts

Re: Waymo One is now open to everyone in San Francisco

#621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s legal to enter an intersection on yellow and exit on red in CA. Thats why. Human drivers speed up to avoid red, and yay you avoided red but the suddenly higher speed is far more dangerous for everyone around.

Why would it be illegal to enter on yellow? I thought that's the entire point of yellow. Otherwise we'd just have red and green, and hopefully you can imagine how that would work out.

Its the leaving on red being legal thats the interesting part.

Plenty other jurisdictions will ticket if your car is still on the intersection when it turns red.

Re: Waymo One is now open to everyone in San Francisco

#622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main factor though is that California appears poised to hand them a monopoly.

Cruise did not help themselves. The market is open.

Waymo/Google benefitted massively from regulation (and lack of regulation) early on when they hacked up the car’s code for a demo and caused an accident with injuries

https://www.businessinsider.com/anthony-levandowski-google-s...

Waymo would not exist as it is today if that crash had any fair scrutiny.

Re: Waymo One is now open to everyone in San Francisco

#624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m quite confident in it and personally ride it monthly. Happy to bet it will turn out to be no more than twice as dangerous as the median driver today, ie, as dangerous as driving in the 1980s. In the long term it will be vastly safer, obviously.

I'm glad you feel that way (and I mostly feel the same / ride Waymos frequently), but it doesn't change the reality that you're putting all your faith in a self-regulating company that does not cooperate with regulators more than it absolutely needs to, and where a change in leadership / safety culture / process can cause a catastrophe overnight. And this isn't hyperbole; 1 software push is all that separates a car t…

In the next couple years Waymo will have accumulated more than 100M miles driven, which is the number a human drives statistically before causing 1 death on average. Are you still going to be worried when they drive 1B miles and have 2 deaths? What about 100B miles with 30 deaths? At what point will you accept the statistical evidence?

Re: Waymo One is now open to everyone in San Francisco

#625
post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do appreciate your sacrifice, here in the EU.

Congrats on your breakthroughs in writing laws.

Do you still elect presidents with a minority of the popular vote? Are corporations still people?

Turns out, the right breakthroughs in writing laws are good, too. While the bad ones wreck you.

Re: Waymo One is now open to everyone in San Francisco

#626
post #370
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HD Mapping is great when it's accurate and available. But it requires a ton of data and constant updating, or the car will get "lost," and realistically will never be implemented in general, at best in certain cities. Waymo have said time and again they don’t rely on maps being 100% accurate to be able to drive. It's one of the key assumptions of the system. They use it as prior knowledge to aid in decision making.…

Wasn’t it Waymo that had troubles navigating in winter and not seeing bike racks and other obstacles due to poor HD mapping?

Waymo doesn't serve any snowy locales yet. But sure, years and years ago mapping was worse than it is today? The mapping used today is working quite well in warm weather locales.

Re: Waymo One is now open to everyone in San Francisco

#627
post #151
post #11

Add freeways and airport rides, both of which they are very close to doing, Waymo will become much more of a complete service and a true Uber/Lyft replacement. In a year's time, we could genuinely see them operating at scale in 6-8 major cities (SF, Phoenix, LA, Austin and new cities), especially with their new dedicated robotaxi from Zeekr. A possible hold up would be China import tariffs imposed by the US governmen…

1: Airport rides are already available in Phoenix between 10PM and 6AM. 2: I have never seen a Waymo on the freeway without someone driving it (not monitored self-driving, but physically driving it). Take this with a grain of sand but it is my understanding that full self-driving on highways is still far away given the limited range of the (relatively) small sensors and the speed of travel required. That is: the sens…

> That is: the sensors cannot see far enough ahead to react comfortably when going above N miles-per-hour. That might be a dated understanding of the issue though...

It's more of a challenge when your stopping distance is low (more problematic for trucking than it is for TaaS vehicles since trucks are so damn heavy).

I suspect some challenges are risks like tailgater collisions and high-stakes lane changes at speed, and even more problematic is just profitability (what if your cars are tied up in traffic jams, what if they don't have enough charge left to make a long round trip, etc).

Re: Waymo One is now open to everyone in San Francisco

#628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you feel that way (and I mostly feel the same / ride Waymos frequently), but it doesn't change the reality that you're putting all your faith in a self-regulating company that does not cooperate with regulators more than it absolutely needs to, and where a change in leadership / safety culture / process can cause a catastrophe overnight. And this isn't hyperbole; 1 software push is all that separates a car t…

In the next couple years Waymo will have accumulated more than 100M miles driven, which is the number a human drives statistically before causing 1 death on average. Are you still going to be worried when they drive 1B miles and have 2 deaths? What about 100B miles with 30 deaths? At what point will you accept the statistical evidence?

A new software release has driven zero miles. You do not know what kind of performance it has -- regressions both happen and are expected with every launch.

The number of miles a release ends up driving is mostly in simulation + some human-supervised on-road testing, and may be low / influenced by the availability of resources ($$$). There are little to no regulations or 3rd party checks on the process used to clear releases.

They do not simulate every release on all X miles driven. They can't, it's super expensive, and that's to speak nothing of challenges like simulation realism or compatibility of the simulator with multiple generations of hardware that isn't backwards compatible.

They could have no deaths for years, then suddenly a whole lot after a bad software push. Recently they issued a recall because of a bug where the car could hit a telephone pole. Imagine if the software had a bug when their cars were ubiquitous on highways, slamming cars into concrete medians? Imagine if a fault could bork critical technologies like the lidar at a high rate across the fleet?

What happens to Waymo if they kill even 1 child due to a bug or lapse in model quality? I imagine many would wake up to the reality of their safety story and demand a way to audit software releases. Or would you continue to let your kid ride Waymo? This is also to say nothing of sensor failures and other ways the car can mess up.

The probability of your dying in a Waymo is not # incidents / # miles, because past performance does not guarantee future performance when it comes to new releases. It's unknown quantity L (likelihood of encountering a dangerous bug per unit time) * T (time spent in car). Without more data about L (which changes based on many factors, like the company's process for certifying releases), L*T could go from 0 to something unacceptably high really fast.

You trust the car you drive today because the parts are quality controlled and regulated. Software drivers are a very new part added to this chain of things to trust. Their quality control process is not yet publicly regulated. The reality is there needs to be an advancement in technology to ensure software quality / safety, ideally from the role of an unbiased auditor that can catch faults and ground the fleet asap, then restore public faith by ensuring gaps in the qualification processes are fixed. No such mechanism exists today.

Re: Waymo One is now open to everyone in San Francisco

#629
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be any different from Uber? Doesn't Uber also want to cut costs?

Uber doesn't really have a way to increase profit through messier cars. But they can do things like increase prices after taking over a market, which they have not been at all shy about doing.

They can definitely have more beat up cars which over time I can observe in my city. As for prices, luckily they have a lot stronger competition with bolt and local taxi apps as creating a local taxi app is really not that hard

Re: Waymo One is now open to everyone in San Francisco

#630

I highly recommend everyone try it out if you're in SF. It's an incredibly smooth and sure ride. The cars are really nice too (Jaguar I-Pace electric cars), clean and spacious. The first time you ride in one, it feels truly sci-fi. But within 5 minutes, you're almost bored of it - that's how good it is. If I had to choose between an Uber of questionable cleanliness and driver temperament and a Waymo with a slightly l…

I love how we've gone from "Taxis are gross and dirty, that's why I love Uber!" to "Ubers are gross and dirty, that's why I love Waymo!" in the span of 5 years. What do you think comes next? These cars are literally unsupervised.

Careening into dystopia one questionably clean Uber at a time
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