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Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

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Re: Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

#111

Post by godelski »

ssnover wrote: post #103
chrisco255 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better strategy would be to do away with income tax altogether and replace with something easier to comply with and enforce like a Federal sales tax. States that run on sales tax alone need only to collect revenue from businesses, which shrinks their staffing requirements. And since it's a straightforward % of sales, it's easier to audit as well.

These are not 1:1 replaceable. Income tax is progressively structured where higher earners pay a larger percentage in income that falls into higher income brackets. Sales tax is a flat percentage which varies based on item category, not the cost of the item.

And if you need evidence to see that this statement is true, look at states where there is no income tax. It isn't just blue skies in those states. But you might need to look into the details to see that more clearly. There's no free lunch

Re: Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

#112

Post by enragedcacti »

pembrook wrote: post #88
jmclnx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had friends and relatives who worked for the US IRS in the 80s, they all would say the IRS was the one place that budgets will never be cut, so the felt far more secure than I did in Tech. Little did they know the top 1% would get with one specific US Political Party to cut the IRS budget so thy can all cheat on their taxes. It is cheaper for them to hire lawyers than to pay their "fair share".

If the IRS budget since the 80s hasn't decreased on a per-capita, inflation-adjusted basis, then something has gone horribly wrong. Why the heck would we want tax collection to get more inefficient every year? This one of the most misguided narratives I see from people of the other "specific US political party" to the one you're referring to. As another commenter pointed out, if the transition away from cash and self…

1) It has.

2) Tax enforcement is a cat and mouse game, efficiency from automatic data collection could be offset by any number of things like changes to the tax code or more advanced methods for tax evasion.

3) Efficiency relative to the 1980s is way less important than the efficiency of each marginal dollar. Refusing to fund the IRS over its efficiency is like skipping work because you need to find a faster route to the office first. Finding a faster route isn't a bad idea but it shouldn't take priority over the point of the whole endeavor.

Re: Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

#113

Post by standardUser »

jmclnx wrote: post #37
HillRat wrote: post #5

The IRS is a perennial budgeting football for Congress, even though it's one of the few agencies for whom increasing their budget creates positive net revenue for the federal government; its enforcement arm is down 30% in staffing since 2010, with predictably dismal results. As an anecdotal comparison, I had a fairly long-running issue years ago with the IRS over a minor problem (some expenditures got posted to one f…

I had friends and relatives who worked for the US IRS in the 80s, they all would say the IRS was the one place that budgets will never be cut, so the felt far more secure than I did in Tech. Little did they know the top 1% would get with one specific US Political Party to cut the IRS budget so thy can all cheat on their taxes. It is cheaper for them to hire lawyers than to pay their "fair share".

This cannot be stated clearly enough. The Republican Party at the federal level has made it their policy position to defund the IRS to make it easier for the wealthy to cheat on their taxes.

Re: Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

#114

Post by [deleted] »

jmclnx wrote: post #37
HillRat wrote: post #5

The IRS is a perennial budgeting football for Congress, even though it's one of the few agencies for whom increasing their budget creates positive net revenue for the federal government; its enforcement arm is down 30% in staffing since 2010, with predictably dismal results. As an anecdotal comparison, I had a fairly long-running issue years ago with the IRS over a minor problem (some expenditures got posted to one f…

I had friends and relatives who worked for the US IRS in the 80s, they all would say the IRS was the one place that budgets will never be cut, so the felt far more secure than I did in Tech. Little did they know the top 1% would get with one specific US Political Party to cut the IRS budget so thy can all cheat on their taxes. It is cheaper for them to hire lawyers than to pay their "fair share".

[deleted]

Re: Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

#115

Post by matwood »

withinboredom wrote: post #90

The IRS still owes me a shit load of money (I live overseas). If I did this, they’d probably figure out how to drag me back to the US, freeze my assets, and make my life hell. They just hang up on me before I even get ahold of a human. I call once a week for two years now. Now they owe me for international calls too, and I am trying to find a lawyer to sue them. If anyone knows anyone, my email is in my bio.

Living overseas doesn’t necessarily mean they owe you money. But if they really do owe you, you’re best bet is to hire a tax accountant to file the paperwork. It might take time to get reviewed, but it will get reviewed. And, if you are correct, they will cut you a check (with interest even).

Re: Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

#116

Post by robertlagrant »

ryandrake wrote: post #110
robertlagrant wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a subset of Republicans who believe that taxes should be painful Can you cite this?

Look up Grover Norquist and his lasting influence on even modern Republican policy.

> he is the primary promoter of the Taxpayer Protection Pledge, a pledge signed by lawmakers who agree to oppose increases in marginal income tax rates for individuals and businesses, and net reductions or eliminations of deductions and credits without a matching reduced tax rate

This guy?

Re: Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

#117

Post by ProjectArcturis »

robertlagrant wrote: post #104
mywittyname wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why the heck would we want tax collection to get more inefficient every year? There is a subset of Republicans who believe that taxes should be painful. They should be constantly front-of-mind for every American. It keeps people from forgetting about income taxes and having them fade from public discourse.

> There is a subset of Republicans who believe that taxes should be painful Can you cite this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_duckies

Re: Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

#118

Post by ryandrake »

giantg2 wrote: post #31
HillRat wrote: post #5

The IRS is a perennial budgeting football for Congress, even though it's one of the few agencies for whom increasing their budget creates positive net revenue for the federal government; its enforcement arm is down 30% in staffing since 2010, with predictably dismal results. As an anecdotal comparison, I had a fairly long-running issue years ago with the IRS over a minor problem (some expenditures got posted to one f…

Is increasing the enforcement arm going to help with these questions? Also, they are increasing the inforcement arm substantially, to the point it should be above the 2010 levels.

My understanding is part of the problem is that they have not been well-funded enough to even think about going after the top earners, who can easily afford to outnumber them with lawyers and CPAs. So, they give the people at the very top a pass because even if they are tax-dodgers, it's too expensive to prove it. Which leaves them going after middle class people who exaggerated their charitable deduction a little or hid a $100 eBay sale. They're easy marks and won't be able to resist with an army lawyers.

Re: Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

#119

Post by ethbr1 »

doe_eyes wrote: post #64
jmclnx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had friends and relatives who worked for the US IRS in the 80s, they all would say the IRS was the one place that budgets will never be cut, so the felt far more secure than I did in Tech. Little did they know the top 1% would get with one specific US Political Party to cut the IRS budget so thy can all cheat on their taxes. It is cheaper for them to hire lawyers than to pay their "fair share".

It's a narrative that's easy to believe in because audit rates are going down. But when you think about it... why should be they going up? In the 1980s and before, the IRS literally had no way of knowing if you're telling the truth without auditing you. Everything was done on paper, cash was king. So the audits were indiscriminate and invasive, and needed a large army of employees to orchestrate. Now, the IRS knows a…

> Now, the IRS knows almost everything about your finances. They get electronic data from your employers, your bank, your brokerage. Most of commerce is settled electronically.

Afaik, this is both true and not.

The IRS gets very specific data points, that institutions are required by law to give them.

That's largely a complete picture of your income, at least from sources that are required to report.

What they have no idea about is your expenses or classification thereof.

If we decided to move to a progressive (more money = higher rates) and no exemption/deduction system, then the IRS would have everything needed.

But in fact we have a spaghetti of deductions, because it's far easier to sneak a special interest deduction into the tax code.

Re: Millions of Taxpayers Call the IRS for Help. Two-Thirds Don't Reach Anyone

#120

Post by sandwitches »

standardUser wrote: post #113
jmclnx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had friends and relatives who worked for the US IRS in the 80s, they all would say the IRS was the one place that budgets will never be cut, so the felt far more secure than I did in Tech. Little did they know the top 1% would get with one specific US Political Party to cut the IRS budget so thy can all cheat on their taxes. It is cheaper for them to hire lawyers than to pay their "fair share".

This cannot be stated clearly enough. The Republican Party at the federal level has made it their policy position to defund the IRS to make it easier for the wealthy to cheat on their taxes.

It's a common destructive strategy: don't outlaw the thing, outlaw or defund the thing's infrastructure. Can't outlaw abortion? Outlaw abortion pills. Can't outlaw education? Defund public school. Congress won't outlaw the IRS (for now), but they can bury budget cuts deep within omnibus spending bills.
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