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Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

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Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#181

Post by snapcaster »

swat535 wrote: post #178
snapcaster wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait? I don't mean any disrespect but when i read sentences like that all that pops into my head is "sucker"

Because it's a question of morality, if you think they are "suckers" for adhering to what they deemed as honorable, then I don't think I have much more to add. You'll end up with more cash at the end of the day, but perhaps they go home filling fulfilled. Not everything in life can be reduced to a profitable equation.

I never criticized hard work in general, really important to focus on the "without reward" part

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#182

Post by mlinhares »

ralferoo wrote: post #139
mlinhares wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of "another dime" when you work extra is also something that prevents most people from going above and beyond. If there's nothing else out there, why would you care? Working with my wife now to get her to start a business so we can keep my salary to pay the bills but focus on the business so our effort can have a meaningful impact on the bottom line.

I have one that's even worse than that. The company I worked at once insisted on you keeping a timesheet for work done and which clients should be billed for each 15 minute block. They charged the clients according to that. They even went as far as charging other internal teams for your time if you had a chat with a colleague in another team! If you, however, had any unaccounted for blocks (i.e. not 8h per day), it'd…

What an insane hellscape. I'm glad I never worked in consultancies like this.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#183

Post by _yb2s »

harimau777 wrote: post #61
killjoywashere wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a lot better than homelessness though. Yeah, I feel like more people in the developed world should go spend quality time with the least among us, the homeless, and folks in the developing world. A lot of people with burnout will find themselves skipping to work. Because at least you're not living in trees with insects and hollowing out a log to sail to another island to get your special needs kid to a doctor o…

I think that it's possible that isn't true. Perhaps the areas where people in the developed world are worse off (micromanagement, family, home ownership, etc.) are more important to avoiding burnout than the "comfort" that the developed world generally excels at providing. Stated another way, it is possible that burnout isn't determined by some overall sense of "how difficult is life" but is instead caused by life be…

People seem to confuse physical comfort with happiness and good mental health when they aren't the same at all. Extreme physical discomfort, or lack of food/water/shelter are awful, but they don't specifically cause burnout. And people don't start "skipping to work" just because they know someone else is less comfortable, when they are worn down from years of chronic stress.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#184

Post by [deleted] »

_yb2s wrote: post #40
killjoywashere wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a lot better than homelessness though. Yeah, I feel like more people in the developed world should go spend quality time with the least among us, the homeless, and folks in the developing world. A lot of people with burnout will find themselves skipping to work. Because at least you're not living in trees with insects and hollowing out a log to sail to another island to get your special needs kid to a doctor o…

I have spent extended periods of time living and traveling on really small 15-17ft sailboats with no electricity or modern tech together with a young kid, and never miss anything about modern life. I feel so much healthier and happier using my body and being outdoors vs in my usual desk job. To be fair I have a job, home, and health care waiting for me if anything goes wrong. But I am certain this isn’t just simple r…

[deleted]

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#185

Post by marginalia_nu »

adolph wrote: post #143
marginalia_nu wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big part of the problem is arguably alienation. A janitorial job can be rewarding because you can see that you are making a difference in the world. You get to meet the people whose lives are improved by what you do, every day. Filling out spreadsheets, it can be hard to tell what the purpose of what you are doing, whom it benefits, and how the world would be worse off if you simply didn't show up.

> Big part of the problem is arguably alienation. I’ve heard said (don’t recall the specifics) Maslov’s hierarchy is upside down, that with sufficient meaning/purpose, many deprivations of lower elements can be handled. Not certain if I’d go that far, esp at extremes, but that the pieces of the “hierarchy” are more like eqalish puzzle pieces than a stacked pyramid.

I think in general, if you arrange needs into a hierarchy, people will arrange them roughly in reverse of the degree to which they are being satisfied for the person you're asking.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#187

Post by ryandrake »

boilerupnc wrote: post #37
marginalia_nu wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big part of the problem is arguably alienation. A janitorial job can be rewarding because you can see that you are making a difference in the world. You get to meet the people whose lives are improved by what you do, every day. Filling out spreadsheets, it can be hard to tell what the purpose of what you are doing, whom it benefits, and how the world would be worse off if you simply didn't show up.

This! I enjoy my work in tech, but it mostly never seems to have a beginning nor an end. There’s always the next iteration of work waiting on the horizon. Even though I could afford to hire out, I relished the opportunity to do a repetitive home task like mowing the yard. The mental satisfaction of seeing an unkept yard transform into clean edges, clipped blade mulch islands and more order than chaos - all as a resul…

This is a deliberate mindset that software companies (their leadership) adopt willingly: That their software is never "done". In software, nobody wants to build a new house. They just want to add another floor to the existing building. There are companies who have an end state for their software, at which time they set it down and work on something else, but they are hard to find.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#188

Post by ryandrake »

hindsightbias wrote: post #149
lqet wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The janitor in my school was a relaxed guy in his late 50s. He was always joking and seemed to be quite satisfied with his job. All the children respected him - he was the guy you turned to when something was not working right, and he fixed it. He and his family lived on the school campus in a nice bungalow with a nice garden. His children also went to my school. While his salary certainly wasn't great, he did not ha…

One of my job sites had an isle window overview of a couple acres of grassland. Whenever the grounds guy was mowing and rocking with his headphones guys would stop and watch him do a couple of rows. I don't think people who never mowed yards as a kid would get it. When people asked what I do in tech, I'd say "tech janitor".

I've always called myself a "cyber janitor." Same deal. I clean up tech messes that people higher than me make, so that they can take credit for how clean they are.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#189

Post by ryandrake »

Nathanba wrote: post #97
snapcaster wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait? I don't mean any disrespect but when i read sentences like that all that pops into my head is "sucker"

because the "regardless of reward" thing is supposed to be temporary until a decent human being above you realizes that you should be rewarded. If we all just did the absolute minimum then society and humanity would never get anywhere because you'd never know who a good worker is.

> temporary until a decent human being above you realizes that you should be rewarded

In my 25 year career, I have never, ever, ever seen this happen. Nobody is just going to wake up and decide that you should be making more money and reward you. You have to fight for it, schmooze for it, document all that good work you are doing, make a case, fight again for it, beg for it, plead for it, threaten to quit over it, and maybe, maybe the company will finally give in and reward you, after trying every possible way to avoid having to do it.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#190

Post by ryandrake »

silverquiet wrote: post #131
acureau wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like a cornerstone of American culture, the belief that hard work will be rewarded is ingrained in us. I think it's a great attitude, but hard to keep up when you realize it's often not true

It actually is often rewarded quite well, just not to the one doing the work.

Bingo. Your hard work is ultimately buying your boss's boss's boss's boss a new vacation home or sailboat. You're supposed to feel grateful that you're making a nice middle class salary and can fully fund your 401(k) while they capture the rest of the value you're producing.
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