Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure

#61

Post by malux85 » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 4:12 PM UTC

JW_00000 wrote: post #59

malux85 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so it's like App Engine has a bigger brother :) I hate Google App Engine, I hope Azure is better

Care to explain why you hate App Engine so much?

Yep sure.

- It's speed is very unpredictable. Sometimes it'll be lighting fast, other times requests will hang for up to 8 seconds. We've used nodes in data centers across the world to measure this and have confirmed 100% that the delay is happening at App Engine and not our machines :)

- There's been several times where I have used Google Python libraries (for other Google products) and found them incompatible with the version of Python on app engine. I've had to write several dummy modules that replace googles ones that attempt to open a file on the disk in write mode (not allowed) when they're not even writing to the file! I cant be specific, under NDA. I have contributed the fixes back to the Google API team.

- The last 3 SDK upgrades has broken something in the core modules, or Django. App Engine SDK upgrades are now a running joke at my workplace

- It's insanely expensive for the CPU / DB power that you get

Re: Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure

#62

Post by gouranga » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 4:27 PM UTC

rkwz wrote: post #5

Why do I get the feeling that every article about MS is posted with the tone "Hey look guys, MS is doing something stoopid". The same tone seems to be missing when other tech companies are concerned.

I posted this article on HN.

There is an underlying tone in the community but some of us make a living thanks to Microsoft.

I am impressed that they have done this, which is why I posted it.

Re: Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure

#63

Post by brudgers » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 4:32 PM UTC

mcantelon wrote: post #53

brudgers wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought a lot about this over the past few years. I believe there are a couple of cultural factors which contribute to it. On the large scale, Apple's "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC," made Microsoft bashing socially acceptable in the general culture. The second is more subtle, but more applicable to HN. Microsoft is not a Silicon Valley company and it never was. One source of animosity that this has created is that it has…

Microsoft also doesn't do much that is interesting. They tend to imitate and their imitations are seldom better, and are often worse, than the originals. The only moderately recent exception I can think of offhand is Kinect. Are there other innovations they've brought to market over recent years? Microsoft's research division does amazing things, of course, but I'm talking about products.

Powershell

Re: Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure

#64

Post by maslam » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 4:33 PM UTC

outside1234 wrote: post #45

Does anyone know when this is actually going to be available? (Its currently "coming soon") After Scott's talk today? Or are they going to slow ramp this?

Hi, I work on Azure. We'll be opening signups after Scott's talk in SFO.

Re: Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure

#65

Post by malux85 » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 4:40 PM UTC

malux85 wrote: post #61

JW_00000 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain why you hate App Engine so much?

Yep sure. - It's speed is very unpredictable. Sometimes it'll be lighting fast, other times requests will hang for up to 8 seconds. We've used nodes in data centers across the world to measure this and have confirmed 100% that the delay is happening at App Engine and not our machines :) - There's been several times where I have used Google Python libraries (for other Google products) and found them incompatible with…

Hows this for nasty:

Part of Python [removed] core module on App Engine has a bug in it. Including this module will terminate your application with an exception.

Nobody notices it in development or testing, because the dev system was including the python distributions [removed] module, which is apparently different to the one on App Engine.

Site makes it through testing. push live and crunch, falls over.

Now we have a test app engine account, and have to deploy to that first, because we cant rely on the installation of Python on App Engine matching the installation of python on our dev machines, even though the versions are exactly the same

Re: Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure

#66

Post by rbanffy » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 4:52 PM UTC

malux85 wrote: post #61

JW_00000 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to explain why you hate App Engine so much?

Yep sure. - It's speed is very unpredictable. Sometimes it'll be lighting fast, other times requests will hang for up to 8 seconds. We've used nodes in data centers across the world to measure this and have confirmed 100% that the delay is happening at App Engine and not our machines :) - There's been several times where I have used Google Python libraries (for other Google products) and found them incompatible with…

PaaS is a tough thing to do. You have to automatically deploy new instances of your applications, distribute those instances according to the load on individual nodes of its clusters. Also, they have to do more or less the same with the datastore. If you have loads that experience sharp peaks, new instances will have to be spun up and that may take some time. Some seemingly random variations on response time are to be expected when you consider it's not only your application that's running there. You can somehow mitigate that by setting up warmup requests (https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/python/config/a...) and tuning the minimum pending latency (https://developers.google.com/appengine/docs/adminconsole/pe...). If you build a fixed size cluster to run a single application, you'll experience much more predictable response times.

As for the price, you should consider what would it cost running your application on IaaS, rented or co-lo hardware. As always, YMMV.

Re: Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure

#67

Post by RandallBrown » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 4:53 PM UTC

mcantelon wrote: post #53

brudgers wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought a lot about this over the past few years. I believe there are a couple of cultural factors which contribute to it. On the large scale, Apple's "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC," made Microsoft bashing socially acceptable in the general culture. The second is more subtle, but more applicable to HN. Microsoft is not a Silicon Valley company and it never was. One source of animosity that this has created is that it has…

Microsoft also doesn't do much that is interesting. They tend to imitate and their imitations are seldom better, and are often worse, than the originals. The only moderately recent exception I can think of offhand is Kinect. Are there other innovations they've brought to market over recent years? Microsoft's research division does amazing things, of course, but I'm talking about products.

I think Windows Phone is a pretty solid innovation on the smartphone front. It's UI isn't iPhone UI++ like Android, WebOS, and others. It's new and interesting.

A lot of their living room entertainment stuff they've done with Xbox and Windows Media Center has been pretty cool. Not necessarily groundbreaking, but still neat.

Re: Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure

#68

Post by RandallBrown » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 5:05 PM UTC

sixcorners wrote: post #39

facorreia wrote: post #34

For those curious to learn more, today (June 7th) at 1PM PDT there will be a live streaming with Scott Guthrie from Microsoft. http://www.meetwindowsazure.com/

Is... Is that a picture of a Mac? ( http://www.meetwindowsazure.com/img/home/hero.png )

yes, a pretty old one. They haven't used that keyboard in years.

Re: Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure

#69

Post by rbanffy » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 5:05 PM UTC

malux85 wrote: post #65

malux85 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep sure. - It's speed is very unpredictable. Sometimes it'll be lighting fast, other times requests will hang for up to 8 seconds. We've used nodes in data centers across the world to measure this and have confirmed 100% that the delay is happening at App Engine and not our machines :) - There's been several times where I have used Google Python libraries (for other Google products) and found them incompatible with…

Hows this for nasty: Part of Python [removed] core module on App Engine has a bug in it. Including this module will terminate your application with an exception. Nobody notices it in development or testing, because the dev system was including the python distributions [removed] module, which is apparently different to the one on App Engine. Site makes it through testing. push live and crunch, falls over. Now we have…

> Now we have a test app engine account

That's good practice. You test locally, then test on a real deployment environment, then deploy to production. You should also use app versions and test new ideas on new versions and always plan for rolling back.

Re: Microsoft offering Linux virtual machines on Azure

#70

Post by sigkill » Thu, Jun 07, 2012, 5:05 PM UTC

rbn wrote: post #29

brudgers wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought a lot about this over the past few years. I believe there are a couple of cultural factors which contribute to it. On the large scale, Apple's "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC," made Microsoft bashing socially acceptable in the general culture. The second is more subtle, but more applicable to HN. Microsoft is not a Silicon Valley company and it never was. One source of animosity that this has created is that it has…

I disagree with the 2nd paragraph. Amazon is not a SV company but the are loved by SV. I think the problem goes waayy back to the original ideological differences of Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. However one thing that might make SV loyalists tick is that the largest software company in the world is not in SV.

But lets be honest, Steve wasn't a paragon of virtue himself. Actually the more I read about him (just read the June Fast company article) the more I think he lets his emotions dictate his corporate actions. I mean, who ever publicly announces that they're starting a rival company in revenge for being kicked out?

I like (todays) Bill Gates as a human being. I like (the last current build of ) Steve Jobs purely because of his marketing skills.