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Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

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Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#151

Post by anal_reactor »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #126
deskr wrote: post #92

The humanity has been taken out of jobs. It's all about making an optimised monkey making machine. I think MBAs are destroying everything. See how Google is being destroyed from the inside. Boeing has pretty much been destroyed from the inside.

> The humanity has been taken out of jobs. Absolutely, but... The humanity was taken out of jobs before, too. An assembly-line job wasn't like being a craftsman. There was "alienation" (to use the Marxist term) there too. The factory workers were just biological components of a big machine. The difference between then and now was that much of the rest of life still had the humanity in it. You knew people in your neig…

> But they feel it especially at work, because that's the place that they interact with other people the most, so it's the place where there should be the best chance of real human contact. And it's not there.

The worst part is, modern workplace is actively hostile to creating meaningful interpersonal bonds, while it keeps a face of being ridiculously welcoming and inclusive. When you are in such environment it's hard to spot that the game is rigged, and you blame yourself for your interpersonal failures.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#153

Post by MichaelRo »

In my case I wouldn't describe the feeling as burnout as much as PTSD. Without the P of course, because it's ongoing since ever and will go on for ever and ever and ever :)

Worst thing in software development is the constant bombardment of the unexpected. There's not a single God-given day in this job that shit just runs smoothly. Always, usually when least expecting it, there's a "wtf is this shit?!!" moment, followed of course by "I must absolutely solve this completely unexpected and incidental thing which popped up that I've no idea how it works or why it happens but can't do any progress on my regular task before I figure this out".

A few years of this are enough to send any normal people to the nuthouse or out of the field. Yet, some of us endure it for decades. Seemingly without being affected. Seemingly ... because underneath there's a raging traumatic stress disorder we try to keep in check :)

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#154

Post by ghusto »

bdcravens wrote: post #3

Most people don't have "fulfilling" jobs. They have a paycheck. A very small percentage of Americans, let alone those around the world, have the privilege of analyzing how their job makes them feel. I get paid great money to play with computers. My father was an elementary school janitor.

> A very small percentage of Americans, let alone those around the world, have the privilege of analyzing how their job makes them feel

From my interactions with Americans, I'd have to say that there are way more people around the world have that luxury than Americans. Exhibit A: The French.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#155

Post by KineticLensman »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #7
bdcravens wrote: post #3

Most people don't have "fulfilling" jobs. They have a paycheck. A very small percentage of Americans, let alone those around the world, have the privilege of analyzing how their job makes them feel. I get paid great money to play with computers. My father was an elementary school janitor.

Big part of the problem is arguably alienation. A janitorial job can be rewarding because you can see that you are making a difference in the world. You get to meet the people whose lives are improved by what you do, every day. Filling out spreadsheets, it can be hard to tell what the purpose of what you are doing, whom it benefits, and how the world would be worse off if you simply didn't show up.

> You get to meet the people whose lives are improved by what you do, every day

Yes! When I retired I started volunteering at a raptor conservation centre, and got given loads of simple mundane tasks. Some were really tedious (cleaning the birds' water bowls, removing poop, getting rid of nettles that blocked a view, etc etc) but at the end of the day my minder could see that the tasks had been done and that I wasn't a flake. They also demonstrated commitment, which helped me move up to helping with the birds themselves, and now I help fly them in experience days, showing them to paying members of the public, and bringing in funds that resource critical conservation projects (nest boxes, anti-poacher campaigns, etc).

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#156

Post by ikety »

snapcaster wrote: post #41
ikety wrote: post #25

I used to be an employee that would kill themselves for even minimum wage. I think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait, but keeping that up for decades is difficult. Naturally I am very loyal and agreeable. I like to solve raw engineering problems, but also social ones. I find a way to adapt to pretty much anything and anyone. This almost always ends with my employer exploiting me. Recently…

Why did you think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait? I don't mean any disrespect but when i read sentences like that all that pops into my head is "sucker"

A lot of that I think was rooted in low self-esteem. Which is something I still struggle a lot with. The mind is very powerful. At my last job I stepped up to head of engineering after our CTO resigned, and never got a raise. In my mind I didn't deserve it and was a horrible engineer.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#157

Post by AnimalMuppet »

anal_reactor wrote: post #151
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The humanity has been taken out of jobs. Absolutely, but... The humanity was taken out of jobs before, too. An assembly-line job wasn't like being a craftsman. There was "alienation" (to use the Marxist term) there too. The factory workers were just biological components of a big machine. The difference between then and now was that much of the rest of life still had the humanity in it. You knew people in your neig…

> But they feel it especially at work, because that's the place that they interact with other people the most, so it's the place where there should be the best chance of real human contact. And it's not there. The worst part is, modern workplace is actively hostile to creating meaningful interpersonal bonds, while it keeps a face of being ridiculously welcoming and inclusive. When you are in such environment it's har…

I'm not saying you're wrong. But would you (or anyone) mind listing the ways that you think that the modern workplace is "actively hostile to creating meaningful interpersonal bonds"?

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#158

Post by DontchaKnowit »

snapcaster wrote: post #41
ikety wrote: post #25

I used to be an employee that would kill themselves for even minimum wage. I think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait, but keeping that up for decades is difficult. Naturally I am very loyal and agreeable. I like to solve raw engineering problems, but also social ones. I find a way to adapt to pretty much anything and anyone. This almost always ends with my employer exploiting me. Recently…

Why did you think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait? I don't mean any disrespect but when i read sentences like that all that pops into my head is "sucker"

Well, really it is an altruistic trait : I will contribute my best to improving circumstances regardless of reward. Of course this is honorable.

self sacrifice does not make someone a "sucker" by necessity

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#159

Post by Shish2k »

billy99k wrote: post #36

I stated my own consulting company a few years ago. Right now, it's just me. But I plan on hiring employees at some point. Consulting has prevented me from burnout. I almost never have to deal with bullshit corporate politics and if I hate a project, I find a new client.

After 10 years of startups and 10 years of FAANG, I’m thinking of maybe going this route too - can one do it while primarily focussing on the work though? I’ve always had the impression that starting one's own company is an even mix of sales, accounting, and doing the actual job...

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#160

Post by JR1427 »

forinti wrote: post #74
JR1427 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second that academia can be terrible for burnout. In an experimental subject, experiments that can take months to prepare can fail for reasons that you can't do much about, and all you can do is start over. I used to describe this feeling to my wife as if sometimes someone would come along from time to time and wipe your hard drive. Even though my current job can be a grind, at least we rarely have to just throw aw…

I sometimes tell my team that writing software is about learning what to write and how to write it, not the actual artifacts. So throwing code out is not bad, it is just part of the process of learning.

I said "throw away work". Throwing away code is fine!
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