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Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

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Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#141

Post by francisofascii »

snapcaster wrote: post #41
ikety wrote: post #25

I used to be an employee that would kill themselves for even minimum wage. I think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait, but keeping that up for decades is difficult. Naturally I am very loyal and agreeable. I like to solve raw engineering problems, but also social ones. I find a way to adapt to pretty much anything and anyone. This almost always ends with my employer exploiting me. Recently…

Why did you think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait? I don't mean any disrespect but when i read sentences like that all that pops into my head is "sucker"

There are plenty of indirect reasons to working hard. You are theoretically less likely to be fired. You gain a solid reputation among colleagues. You get better at the job which make is easier to get hired elsewhere. Also your conscience plays into it. You feel guilty if you slack off. And there is ego, people want to be the best, or at least not the worst.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#142

Post by mensetmanusman »

snapcaster wrote: post #41
ikety wrote: post #25

I used to be an employee that would kill themselves for even minimum wage. I think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait, but keeping that up for decades is difficult. Naturally I am very loyal and agreeable. I like to solve raw engineering problems, but also social ones. I find a way to adapt to pretty much anything and anyone. This almost always ends with my employer exploiting me. Recently…

Why did you think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait? I don't mean any disrespect but when i read sentences like that all that pops into my head is "sucker"

Of course, in ethics, you have to consider the situation where everyone has your mindset to determine whether it is bad.

Everyone thinking ‘sucker’ to those who work well reminds me of what it’s like to interact with many government institutions.

In that framing, the mindset might (probably) be unethical.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#143

Post by adolph »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #7
bdcravens wrote: post #3

Most people don't have "fulfilling" jobs. They have a paycheck. A very small percentage of Americans, let alone those around the world, have the privilege of analyzing how their job makes them feel. I get paid great money to play with computers. My father was an elementary school janitor.

Big part of the problem is arguably alienation. A janitorial job can be rewarding because you can see that you are making a difference in the world. You get to meet the people whose lives are improved by what you do, every day. Filling out spreadsheets, it can be hard to tell what the purpose of what you are doing, whom it benefits, and how the world would be worse off if you simply didn't show up.

> Big part of the problem is arguably alienation.

I’ve heard said (don’t recall the specifics) Maslov’s hierarchy is upside down, that with sufficient meaning/purpose, many deprivations of lower elements can be handled.

Not certain if I’d go that far, esp at extremes, but that the pieces of the “hierarchy” are more like eqalish puzzle pieces than a stacked pyramid.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#144

Post by shrimp_emoji »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #109
AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it normal in the US for software developers to work 60-70 hour weeks? I understand this is the case in hip startup culture, but what about normal, boring companies? I work as an embedded software developer in Belgium, and here 40 hours is normal.

Depends on the company. A place like Microsoft or Google, where the company doesn’t really need to try to reap the benefits of their monopolies, a lot of people get away with working 20 hour weeks. Amazon and Meta are known to be harder places to work, so maybe 50-60 isn’t rare - although many just do 40. At startups you have to work long hours but that can be anywhere from 50-70 hours. No one is actually doing the 1…

100? That's even more than https://folklore.org/90_Hours_A_Week_And_Loving_It.html

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#145

Post by marginalia_nu »

everdrive wrote: post #132
marginalia_nu wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big part of the problem is arguably alienation. A janitorial job can be rewarding because you can see that you are making a difference in the world. You get to meet the people whose lives are improved by what you do, every day. Filling out spreadsheets, it can be hard to tell what the purpose of what you are doing, whom it benefits, and how the world would be worse off if you simply didn't show up.

I think the low status and the low pay of a janitorial job makes it pretty hard for a lot of people. Higher-paying, higher-status IT work has a different set of problems: meaninglessness, drudgery, and cognitive-dissonance.

Worth noting the comment is specifically about alienation, not which job is better across all axes.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#146

Post by shrimp_emoji »

sandwitches wrote: post #54
AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it normal in the US for software developers to work 60-70 hour weeks? I understand this is the case in hip startup culture, but what about normal, boring companies? I work as an embedded software developer in Belgium, and here 40 hours is normal.

No, that's an insane workload. Your employer doesn't even deserve 40 hours, let alone 70. Jesus, people, live your lives instead of toiling for the rich people who will take from you until you keel over.

Work fortifies the spirit!

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#147

Post by wtetzner »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #59
bartonfink wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're free to make judgements about my work all day. Now come on, give me an argument for why it is patronizing. Stop implying it.

I guess because if you haven't done it, how would you know if it's fulfilling?

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#148

Post by 23B1 »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #91
23B1 wrote: post #6

- Good access to resources - Senior managerial support - Psychological safety with direct manager - Fair and equal opportunity for success These are all leadership solves. Not process solves, not spending solves. Leadership. It's ironic that consultancies like BCG – who are masters of technocratic administration, would post this! Innovation excellence is great. Technical excellence is great. You also need soft-skills…

"leadership solves" Perhaps there is increasing number of psychopaths in leadership positions?

The highest rate of psychopathy I've experienced was amongst technologists thrust into leadership positions; they believe that people are tools, and thus reduce them to numbers, that everything can be operationalized and optimized, including the human mind.

It's a spiderman-pointing-meme. Workers blame management who blame workers ad infinitum.

Both workers and managers need to understand how to break that cycle and it's through leadership – which isn't something that is correlated with altitude in the org chart.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#149

Post by hindsightbias »

lqet wrote: post #105
phil21 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My father was an elementary school janitor. If you paid me the same to be a janitor, I'd take that trade any day of the week. I've been a janitor before and while the job is not fun and has some shitty (pun intended) days - overall I was a better human being not being stuck behind a desk for 10+ hours a day. Unfortunately our economy is what it is, so you can only really be paid for non-physical work these days. Th…

The janitor in my school was a relaxed guy in his late 50s. He was always joking and seemed to be quite satisfied with his job. All the children respected him - he was the guy you turned to when something was not working right, and he fixed it. He and his family lived on the school campus in a nice bungalow with a nice garden. His children also went to my school. While his salary certainly wasn't great, he did not ha…

One of my job sites had an isle window overview of a couple acres of grassland. Whenever the grounds guy was mowing and rocking with his headphones guys would stop and watch him do a couple of rows.

I don't think people who never mowed yards as a kid would get it.

When people asked what I do in tech, I'd say "tech janitor".

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#150

Post by FrustratedMonky »

mcmcmc wrote: post #137
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US Protestant culture. Work is tied up with morals and faith.

Valuing hard work is not US exclusive, many eastern cultures pride themselves on hard work and contribution to community over self-centered obsession over rewards

I agree. A lot of times hard work is a good un-to-itself, and more so when helping others, or community.

I think this thread was more about widgets.

Why would people work hard, go above and beyond, so their company can ship 0.007% more widgets this quarter, or improve efficiency 0.02%. When they will not be paid/rewarded any more than the slacker next to them. The people that do have that 'work' ethic, seem to be getting taken advantage of by the employer.

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