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Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

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Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#101

Post by rtpg »

vector_spaces wrote: post #65
rtpg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to exotisize "blue collar" labor. That being said, I've always wondered if burnout ends up being more likely in roles where you feel like you're suppose to care. Being bored all the time is annoying and sucks, but being in a thing where you feel like you _shouldn't_ be bored and yet are also sucks. Does it suck more? Not sure!

I'm in tech after a decade working blue collar, most of my friends are still working blue collar, and they're all burned out Blue collar doesn't just pay you poorly -- it's also tedious, and there's a pervasive sense that nobody gives a damn about you, your safety, or really anything about you. "nobody" being managers, but also your white collar coworkers who "work upstairs", customers, security, etc. You have very l…

Thanks for confirming this, I appreciate the blunt perspective here.

The idea of even having to think about your own safety in that way is something I have never had to experience. I have stressed out a lot about money before, but I have never been in a situation at that level, and I will remember to appreciate that.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#102

Post by Aurornis »

I did some volunteer mentoring for a while. Burnout was the most common complaint. However, once you dug into each complaint of burnout you discovered that “burnout” has become a catch-all term for a very wide range of feelings.

Before that experience I assumed everyone defined burnout as a severe state of deep distress and lack of energy following extended periods of intense stress, frustration, overwork, and/or lack of control.

Instead, a lot of people used “burnout” more casually, as a catch-all term for any frustrations with their job any or intermittent tiredness. A lot of people would say they were suffering from burnout one week, then everything would be fine again the next Monday after they did something fun over the weekend. To them, burnout could be as simple as being a little tired one week or having to work full 8-hour days for a couple days in a row.

The number of people for whom “burnout” meant a deep and serious affliction that required possibly months to recover from was a lot smaller.

It’s similar to the way people casually talk about their “OCD” because they like to be organized, their “ADHD” when they have nothing resembling clinical ADHD, or their “PTSD” after a mildly unpleasant experience. These terms have become so diluted that they can mean almost anything when you ask people to self-report.

Sure enough, this survey was self-reported. BCG wants to sell you services related to burnout, so maximizing the number of people reporting “burnout” is in their best interests. A self-report survey of unknown cohorts is the perfect way to maximize that number for their headline.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#103

Post by dfxm12 »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #27
surgical_fire wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In either case, the purpose of what you are doing is earning a salary to pay your bills. Workers would do well to always keep it in mind.

If the only purpose of your life truly is to pay bills, that would cause anyone to burn out.

The problem is some need to work to burnout or else they can't pay bills. This is especially true in places like the USA where so many social benefits are tied to employment. Employers understand this. They know a lapse in employment could be devastating, so they can put the screws to employees.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#104

Post by flakeoil »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #7
bdcravens wrote: post #3

Most people don't have "fulfilling" jobs. They have a paycheck. A very small percentage of Americans, let alone those around the world, have the privilege of analyzing how their job makes them feel. I get paid great money to play with computers. My father was an elementary school janitor.

Big part of the problem is arguably alienation. A janitorial job can be rewarding because you can see that you are making a difference in the world. You get to meet the people whose lives are improved by what you do, every day. Filling out spreadsheets, it can be hard to tell what the purpose of what you are doing, whom it benefits, and how the world would be worse off if you simply didn't show up.

But isn't part of taking a job in the first place to earn money so that you can eat, live and enjoy it with your family and friends.

Maybe the issue is more that we earn so much and have no life outside of work so the "earning money to live" is not there anymore.

We try to find meaning in the work itself instead of in the after-work part.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#105

Post by lqet »

phil21 wrote: post #81
bdcravens wrote: post #3

Most people don't have "fulfilling" jobs. They have a paycheck. A very small percentage of Americans, let alone those around the world, have the privilege of analyzing how their job makes them feel. I get paid great money to play with computers. My father was an elementary school janitor.

> My father was an elementary school janitor. If you paid me the same to be a janitor, I'd take that trade any day of the week. I've been a janitor before and while the job is not fun and has some shitty (pun intended) days - overall I was a better human being not being stuck behind a desk for 10+ hours a day. Unfortunately our economy is what it is, so you can only really be paid for non-physical work these days. Th…

The janitor in my school was a relaxed guy in his late 50s. He was always joking and seemed to be quite satisfied with his job. All the children respected him - he was the guy you turned to when something was not working right, and he fixed it. He and his family lived on the school campus in a nice bungalow with a nice garden. His children also went to my school. While his salary certainly wasn't great, he did not have to pay any rent (the bungalow was owned by the city and came with the job), and the job was super secure. He was also the person who worked for the school the longest (since the school opened in the early 70ies), and was a walking history book.

In my previous job, we would regularly see a guy with a small truck delivering vegetables door-to-door during our lunch breaks. We all envied him. He was always smiling and whistling, while we were sitting miserably before our food, counting the minutes remaining before we had to go back into a hell of customer tickets and technical debt.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#106

Post by harimau777 »

snapcaster wrote: post #41
ikety wrote: post #25

I used to be an employee that would kill themselves for even minimum wage. I think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait, but keeping that up for decades is difficult. Naturally I am very loyal and agreeable. I like to solve raw engineering problems, but also social ones. I find a way to adapt to pretty much anything and anyone. This almost always ends with my employer exploiting me. Recently…

Why did you think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait? I don't mean any disrespect but when i read sentences like that all that pops into my head is "sucker"

I think that it depends on context.

To a significant degree, things like charity and parenting are hard work regardless of reward. Arguably, society is built on the idea of people working hard for the good of the whole.

The problem is that corporate capitalism has become a parasite that exploits these instincts.

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#107

Post by RHSeeger »

snapcaster wrote: post #41
ikety wrote: post #25

I used to be an employee that would kill themselves for even minimum wage. I think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait, but keeping that up for decades is difficult. Naturally I am very loyal and agreeable. I like to solve raw engineering problems, but also social ones. I find a way to adapt to pretty much anything and anyone. This almost always ends with my employer exploiting me. Recently…

Why did you think being a hard worker regardless of reward is an honorable trait? I don't mean any disrespect but when i read sentences like that all that pops into my head is "sucker"

I guess it depends on your definition of "hard worker", but I think that people should do the work they agreed to do, to the best of their ability.

I hired a company to install new HVAC in my house, a number of years ago. They spent some time examining the house and came up with a plan. During the course of doing the work, they would occasionally touch base with me to discuss changes they thought made sense (moving one of the thermostat to a location that it more likely to result in the correct temperature, etc). They did a good job and put real effort into making sure I got what I needed.

I hired an electrician to put some outlets in a floor, so that we didn't have cords reaching across the floor from the middle of the room. I described what I was looking to do (plug in the lazyboy, phones, lamp, etc). As he was nearing the completion of his work, I noticed that the outlets were way too recessed; anything with a larger plug (iphone charger) couldn't even plug into it. He pushed back when I told him it needed to be corrected; telling me I could just use an extension cord. I had to keep pushing to get him to spend the time (time that I was paying for per hour anyways) to fix it.

There is a difference between "getting the job done" and "doing a job to the best of your ability"; not killing yourself, but making sure the job is done right, the way you would want it done for yourself. The later is what I consider hard working. I want that from the people I hire and I do my best to provide the same myself.

> the way you would want it done for yourself

Side note, the HVAC system was, give or take, the same system the owner of the company had in his own house. I got everything I could hope for out of their work, and I still reach out to them for anything related (and recommend them highly).

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#108

Post by softwaredoug »

It’s hard to know what to make of this when you also read that job satisfaction is at historic highs[1]. One reading is being highly engaged in your job is related to burnout, because you’re more likely to be unhappy when your job doesn’t go the way you want. Whereas just punching a clock you take it less seriously.

1 - https://www.conference-board.org/press/job-satisfaction-hits...

Re: Half of Workers Around the World Are Struggling with Burnout

#109

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #50
smithrj wrote: post #16

I used to think my burnout was from long hours, but I recently got a chance to work on a greenfield project at work and loved every second of the 60-70h weeks just building something really cool with a small team. The burnout nearly vanished during this time and only recently has started to reappear and I have a much better understanding now of what causes burnout for me specifically.

Is it normal in the US for software developers to work 60-70 hour weeks? I understand this is the case in hip startup culture, but what about normal, boring companies? I work as an embedded software developer in Belgium, and here 40 hours is normal.

Depends on the company. A place like Microsoft or Google, where the company doesn’t really need to try to reap the benefits of their monopolies, a lot of people get away with working 20 hour weeks. Amazon and Meta are known to be harder places to work, so maybe 50-60 isn’t rare - although many just do 40. At startups you have to work long hours but that can be anywhere from 50-70 hours. No one is actually doing the 100 hour weeks they glorify, because it’s impossible to sustain.

The truth is though it’s a broken system. In my opinion even a startup should be able to make it on 40 hours. If they have to put in insane hours for just a slim chance to survive, it’s an indication that there isn’t really fair competition and that the market is too skewed towards existing players.

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