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Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

theguardian.com

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Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#91
post #62
post #3

What are they expecting to be different about samples from the moon's far side to those previously collected?

It would be a good sci-fi plot to find a moon base hiding back there. Populated by aliens/your current enemy/tech billionaire mad scientist/high IQ octopi It could also be an abandoned base.

Already exists, but it's Nazis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX2cS8wvQHI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Sky

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weapons guidance systems get to be simpler in many ways. If you've seen some of the Lunar or Martian landing videos, you'll notice that it's very hard to tell the scale. Especially on the Moon, the lack of atmosphere to disturb the surface makes it fractal-like, which probably really messes with the CV algorithm. It'd work fine when high up, but as you approach for landing, it would probably struggle, especially for,…

Don't they use radar altimeters to get altitude? You don't need to rely only on image processing. You can even pull off stereo using a single camera since you are moving and know the altitude at every point.

The problem with RADAR on the moon is there's an unknown amount of dust between you and the reflective surface.

Apparently cameras also have issues because the lack of atmosphere means everything is high contrast.

So basically, you don't actually know your altitude, and your visual systems may not be reliable.

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#93

Do either China or the US have plans to attempt a Mars sample return? Does China have the rocket power to attempt such a mission? The US seems focused solely on the return moon missions, with any Mars mission presumably behind at least 5 more major Artemis missions that are scheduled through 2031.

Tianwen-3 is the Mars sample return mission of China, which is 2030 on the current plan. They do have the rocket to support the mission. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianwen-3

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they use radar altimeters to get altitude? You don't need to rely only on image processing. You can even pull off stereo using a single camera since you are moving and know the altitude at every point.

They definitely combine several sensors to get a proper height reading, but as we've seen with the American and Japanese landers, getting good readings from the sensors, properly accounting for all factors that might affect sensor readings and being able to properly handle sensor disagreements is quite challenging.

LIDAR/RADAR performance weren't issues with last two attempts. SLIM had a thruster kaboom, IM-1 had human eye safety mechanism wired incorrectly.

This one seem to use scaled down Soyuz capsule as reentry vehicle. They must have reused a lot of proven hardware and software unlike those.

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#95

Do either China or the US have plans to attempt a Mars sample return? Does China have the rocket power to attempt such a mission? The US seems focused solely on the return moon missions, with any Mars mission presumably behind at least 5 more major Artemis missions that are scheduled through 2031.

It was just in the news recently, a NASA request for proposals:

https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-exploring-alternative... ("NASA Exploring Alternative Mars Sample Return Methods")

The latest Mars rover has an (IMHO, purely performative) function for collecting samples that, in theory, could be retrieved for Earth return by a separate lander in the future—one that hasn't been budgeted or designed yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_(rover)#Samples_c...

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely combine several sensors to get a proper height reading, but as we've seen with the American and Japanese landers, getting good readings from the sensors, properly accounting for all factors that might affect sensor readings and being able to properly handle sensor disagreements is quite challenging.

Better call my man... Kalman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter For distance during landing I would be thinking a spatially maximally distributed array of quartz-shielded, thermally-supported laser TOF sensors along nominal extremities, but that's just because they're familiar to me, small, power-efficient, highly linear, relatively accurate, and cheap. Unsure if the IC physics assumptions work in non-atmos…

The apollo guidance system was one of the first production deployments of Kalman filters. Here's the source code: https://github.com/chrislgarry/Apollo-11/blob/master/Luminar... (it was used for star navigation, not sure about the lander).

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#97
post #2

The international moon base plan is fascinating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Lunar_Research_S... (nuclear power plans by Russia not so much) Is there enough gravity on the moon to prevent the long-term health problems from the space station like bone, muscle and vision loss?

I do not know for a fact, but I wouldn't think there is a single chance in hell that living in an environment with 1/6th of the gravity we've got on earth would not cause long term effects in your health, specially to the bones and muscle.

I assume that any large scale colonization of space will involve deeply modified germline humans: reduced oxygen requirements, greater tolerance to radiation, fewer rigid bones, tolerance to many forms of low gravity, loss of ability to live on the surface of a high G planet. And I guess an increased tolerance to boredom given how long it takes to get anywhere when minimizing energy expenditure.

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#98

Do either China or the US have plans to attempt a Mars sample return? Does China have the rocket power to attempt such a mission? The US seems focused solely on the return moon missions, with any Mars mission presumably behind at least 5 more major Artemis missions that are scheduled through 2031.

SpaceX

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#99
post #62
post #3

What are they expecting to be different about samples from the moon's far side to those previously collected?

It would be a good sci-fi plot to find a moon base hiding back there. Populated by aliens/your current enemy/tech billionaire mad scientist/high IQ octopi It could also be an abandoned base.

The plot would be every similar to Apple TV's "For All Mankind" show, I won't spoil who all populates the moon though.

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#100

Do either China or the US have plans to attempt a Mars sample return? Does China have the rocket power to attempt such a mission? The US seems focused solely on the return moon missions, with any Mars mission presumably behind at least 5 more major Artemis missions that are scheduled through 2031.

SpaceX

That's right, I forget SpaceX is ultimately focused on Mars missions. I mostly hear about them now in relation to their role in the upcoming Moon missions.
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