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Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

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Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#251

What's the difference between anti-competitive bundling, and developing seamless integrated experiences? If this is anti-competitive, is it anti-competitive for Apple to bundle music features/up-sell into the iOS UI, or provide an interface for headphones that no other manufacturer can integrate with?

And how would chat and video calls not now be a standard part of an office suite anyway?

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#252

Oh well. I guess it's time for Microsoft to discontinue Teams, destroy any related IP, purge any copies from GitHub/developer workstations/backups, forcibly uninstall it from end-user machines, update Windows to forcibly delete any copies installed in the future, and never, ever, ever under any circumstances try to compete in the chat/video conferencing market ever again. The world will survive, if just barely.

Or just not install it on new windows versions? I mean it’s easy enough to leave old versions intact if they already exist and make IT install teams/office if they’re actually being used.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#253

They should get rid of Edge and a few other stuffs too. Is there a tool to conveniently remove any feature I do not want? Googled around and looks like Powershell is my only reliable option -- and still I cannot remove Edge.

"Debloater" is the term you probably want to search for.

Thanks! I'll try them out. I did remember running one of these after the installation so maybe some updates bring back the bloaters.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I administer a Windows domain at my job that I do 40 hours a week so your assessment of me is just wrong and also offensive. I just restarted one of the workstations with Teams startup enabled and Teams ran when the computer restarted. Then I tried disabling Teams startup in the task manager on the same workstation and then restarted the workstation, and Teams hasn't started. I checked the startup tab in the task man…

lol, a GPO. Very reasonable solution for a home user.

not to mention that gp editor is disabled on non pro windows. i think there is some kind of a funky command line or registry hack to enable it. So yeah, I moved on from windows largely because of this force fed software.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#255

What's the difference between anti-competitive bundling, and developing seamless integrated experiences? If this is anti-competitive, is it anti-competitive for Apple to bundle music features/up-sell into the iOS UI, or provide an interface for headphones that no other manufacturer can integrate with?

Something can be seamless AND separate. Just install the “seamless” apps as needed. Seamless and needing to be installed are orthogonal goals. You can have either, both, or neither. It should be the end users choice and a side effect is that competitors can have a chance as well.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#256
post #231

What's the difference between anti-competitive bundling, and developing seamless integrated experiences? If this is anti-competitive, is it anti-competitive for Apple to bundle music features/up-sell into the iOS UI, or provide an interface for headphones that no other manufacturer can integrate with?

While they offer it they don’t hand it to you for free just because you bought their iCloud storage. The issue here seems to be aimed squarely at slack and the like which have been in-theory pushed out of the market by teams. Of course most of us know that’s unfortunate because if they actually used teams for a little they wouldn’t use it even if it was bundled (probably why MS is trying to stick it everywhere).

I thought the issue was that it comes installed by default. Like the old “Microsoft installed a browser to kill netscape” brawl in America.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It auto-runs all the time. I've got a work laptop with a teams for the work domain which I want. There's also a completely different copy of teams, "Microsoft teams (Personal)" teams, which I have to close. Not just every boot, even after I close it manually, I still find it running constantly. I've no idea what triggers it, but it doesn't seem to obey any startup settings.

I have the same problem on my Mac since installing Teams. Now Microsoft Update Manager starts every time I boot, even though it's not listed in the boot items. And it always shows that I have an update available ... to Microsoft Update Manager. It's a software ouroboros.

Regardless of the software vendor, it's best to avoid Mac software for end users if the installer requires administrator privileges to run.

If you can't drag and drop an end user application into the Applications folder and have it work, just find another option in the same software category.

The exception would be system utilities that modify the OS.

It's perfectly normal for those to require administrative permission to install.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#258

What's the difference between anti-competitive bundling, and developing seamless integrated experiences? If this is anti-competitive, is it anti-competitive for Apple to bundle music features/up-sell into the iOS UI, or provide an interface for headphones that no other manufacturer can integrate with?

> What's the difference between anti-competitive bundling, and developing seamless integrated experiences? The availability of APIs for third-party developers to create a similar competing experience.

I think that's a completely fair distinction.

Do you draw the line at APIs? Should Apple be forced to sell H1 chips and let other headphone makers create the same experience as AirPods?

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#259
post #234
post #63

Why don't they apply the laws universally and effectively make this kind of bundling illegal for mega corporations? For endusers, it feels like they are playing with different rules for Microsoft Apple Adobe and Google. Since EU waits until the damage is done and milks them, it barely helps the situation for consumers. For corps they just assume the penalty as cost of doing business.

Endusers should have a total control over what is getting installed on their machines - just like we used to not so long ago or how some Linux distros allows you to select additional software. Each operating system coming from the biggest corporations should offer two paths: express/recommended setup and a fully customizable one for advanced users.

What if I want to buy a fully integrated, fully bundled install-and-forget OS?

If the EU makes Apple unbundle all the good stuff from macOS I'll finally move to the US.

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