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Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

theguardian.com

31–40 of 129 posts

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#31
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wondered, how do you deal with all the waste heat from a fission power reactor, in a vacuum? Giant radiators? edit: fixed typo, derp. fusion=fission

It would likely be a thermal reactor, I guess? So no waste heat, since the little heat it gives is used to generate electricity.

[deleted]

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nuclear power plans by Russia not so much Why? Any lunar base without nuclear power plans is not a serious effort.

The moon is fairly unique (relative to Earth) in that the exact same spot will go from -200C to +100C on a two week cycle (day and night). It seems "obvious" that there must be some clever way to exploit this to generate energy in a simple and novel fashion.

> seems "obvious" that there must be some clever way to exploit this to generate energy in a simple and novel fashion

Sure, once you have two-week power-storage infrastructure. (And the scale to harvest a useful amount of energy once a month on average.) In the meantime, i.e. our lifetimes, you have countries that can build space nuclear reactors and countries being performative.

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#33
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wondered, how do you deal with all the waste heat from a fission power reactor, in a vacuum? Giant radiators? edit: fixed typo, derp. fusion=fission

It would likely be a thermal reactor, I guess? So no waste heat, since the little heat it gives is used to generate electricity.

Thermal power plants don't use up the heat. They make energy through its transfer (like a dam with water).

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#34
post #5
post #2

The international moon base plan is fascinating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Lunar_Research_S... (nuclear power plans by Russia not so much) Is there enough gravity on the moon to prevent the long-term health problems from the space station like bone, muscle and vision loss?

> Is there enough gravity on the moon to prevent the long-term health problems from the space station like bone, muscle and vision loss? Nobody knows. You might think scientist can science up answers to any question but it is impossible to know this without long term data which is simply not available. There were some experiments done in parabolic flights [2] but those only last for a very short time. There is this l…

> it is impossible to know this without long term data which is simply not available

Generating these data is one of the biggest pay-offs of a lunar colony.

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#35

One thing they seems to have got working fairly reliably is the lunar landing of the probe using image processing to guide the final approach and touch down. It seems to have worked well in this and the previous mission, there are videos on youtube of that. https://youtu.be/wUju9-cckKA?si=nZFOCga10mnCA_vs The other component is the autonomous docking of the return probe in lunar orbit. Soviets have done a lunar sampl…

> the lunar landing of the probe using image processing to guide the final approach

Anyone building precision weapons has gotten fairly good at this.

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nuclear power plans by Russia not so much Why? Any lunar base without nuclear power plans is not a serious effort.

The moon is fairly unique (relative to Earth) in that the exact same spot will go from -200C to +100C on a two week cycle (day and night). It seems "obvious" that there must be some clever way to exploit this to generate energy in a simple and novel fashion.

Good news! Thermal cycles are caused by the sun, and we can harvest sunlight directly! Storage is an issue...

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wondered, how do you deal with all the waste heat from a fission power reactor, in a vacuum? Giant radiators? edit: fixed typo, derp. fusion=fission

> Giant radiators? Yup, that's the thing on top [1]. [1] https://www.nasa.gov/tdm/fission-surface-power/

Thanks, I have seen a lot of pages on nasa.gov, but not that one. Neato!

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar PV linked to battery storage is the obvious energy source for a moonbase. All reactors require coolant circulation and water is going to be among the most valuable commodities on the moon, not something you want to circulate through a reactor (where you inevitably get tritium formation, making the water unsuitable for other uses). Maybe you could use helium or liquid sodium metal as the primary coolant, but the…

You'll need an insane amount of battery storage, since the moon only rotates once per month and you'll need to power through a long period of no sunlight.

Or just very long power lines and multiple solar stations, it's not like the moon is impossible large. But that would be harder than a singular location using nuclear fuel, it's true.

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#39
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps? Any reason that sounds silly to you?

No, and this is not some attack on nuclear power. I am just curious. On earth, nuclear power plants use lots of water and cooling towers. How does that work in a place with no spare water? I also meant to write fission in my original question, not fusion.

Mostly cooling towers are not likely to work in a place with no atmosphere.

Radiators though, are constantly used in spacecraft, and seem to work well. Low gravity, no motion might let the thing be mostly the radiator, with not much support structure. Except it might need to be in shade, in the shadow of a building? hill? solar panels?

Re: Chang'e 6 lunar sample return mission returns with samples from moon's far side

#40
post #3

What are they expecting to be different about samples from the moon's far side to those previously collected?

I was thinking about "what have they found there?". I remember reading that the Central Bank of China was feversly buying Gold, and a few weeks ago they stopped all buying. Then this came to focus, and it made me think... did they find 100 tons of Gold up there, and they know that if they start bringing this in (on Earth) they price will plummet, and expect a massive sell-off in the next few weeks???

But then I do read and watch too much sci-fi!!

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