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Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

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Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, would be unfair towards all the other http tools that arent curl if you bundle it

No one is getting a competitive advantage by bundling curl, which is the entire point of this argument.

That's exactly what Microsoft would say about Teams though, so it's probably better that we err on the side of caution and ban curl bundling. At least until curl can prove that it's not anti-competitive.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, would be unfair towards all the other http tools that arent curl if you bundle it

No one is getting a competitive advantage by bundling curl, which is the entire point of this argument.

wget begs to differ.

Kidding aside, where exactly does it end? How do you consider when you’ve hit “too much” and how many pieces must be split out when you do? Should every product in the Office suite be offered only individually?

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#93
Oh well. I guess it's time for Microsoft to discontinue Teams, destroy any related IP, purge any copies from GitHub/developer workstations/backups, forcibly uninstall it from end-user machines, update Windows to forcibly delete any copies installed in the future, and never, ever, ever under any circumstances try to compete in the chat/video conferencing market ever again. The world will survive, if just barely.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#95
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t know what’s hard to understand there? Microsoft didn’t have a chat product (worth anything, Skype was a mountain of crap). Slack comes along and builds a great product, Microsoft goes “oh, the office suite now includes teams!” So everyone gets it “for free” if they have the office suite, murdering slack in the market. And of cause everyone will have to pay for Teams as the price of the office package rises to I…

So the legal line is that once a company is successful in bundling and selling products the bundle is locked and can never be added to? That seems unreasonable to me, and I generally am pretty hard on monopolistic issues. Edit: wouldn't this mean that Apple could never have added a preinstalled app to the iPhone after the phones became successful?

No, it's just that you can't use dominance in one market to privilege yourself in another. Basically cross promotion and bundling are looked at very sceptically once you get large enough.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#96
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Meet is bundled with Android by Google, it's not there if you use LineageOS. It's probably an individual choice by phone makers (although maybe not a completely free choice). I do agree it shouldn't be bundled of course. But even Chrome isn't bundled for example, so I don't think Google is actually pushing many apps.

It's bundled with all the other Google apps - eg. The play store, docs, search etc. OEM's have to ship them all or none of them.

I've never ever had Meet bundled with any of my phones in my years of using android. On my latest S22, obviously the play store is there but the only other core Google apps that were installed were calendar, chrome, fit, Gmail, Google (the main "app" that probably bundles in the assistant and stuff like that), play music, maps and a couple of others. There was no meet and I can still uninstall calendar

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#97
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You suggest that US government would go to war against its main allies to protect business interests of a software company?

War? The EU didn't start a war when the US blew up nordstream 2. In fact they spent a lot of time nervously pointing at everyone except the US (who said they would blow it up). It's a totally abusive and subservient relationship. But then again the US doesn't allow the EU to have software companies, so they might not care that the data that would go to Teams is being hovered by a different US company instead.

> the US doesn't allow the EU to have software companies

...pardon?

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#98
I thought this was going to be about bundling Teams in O365 and other biz deals.

It's wild to me that Teams is so fucking horrible that many businesses who effectively get it for free as part of other dealings still choose to pay for Slack.

Sadly I know of many, many more companies where the offer is indeed too good to refuse, much to the disappointment of their workforce.

I was helping out at a place where two employees needed Word and Excel licenses, and somehow they got a massive, free Teams license out of it.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#99

I thought this was going to be about bundling Teams in O365 and other biz deals. It's wild to me that Teams is so fucking horrible that many businesses who effectively get it for free as part of other dealings still choose to pay for Slack. Sadly I know of many, many more companies where the offer is indeed too good to refuse, much to the disappointment of their workforce. I was helping out at a place where two emplo…

it's because teams is not really free

It's free per user, but it's quite expensive if you start adding meeting rooms, voip, webinar, ...

Zoom+slack are literally cheaper in total, but the startup cost is very visible and teams startup cost is 0.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#100

Oh well. I guess it's time for Microsoft to discontinue Teams, destroy any related IP, purge any copies from GitHub/developer workstations/backups, forcibly uninstall it from end-user machines, update Windows to forcibly delete any copies installed in the future, and never, ever, ever under any circumstances try to compete in the chat/video conferencing market ever again. The world will survive, if just barely.

What would I ever do without my software engineering team collaboration tool that can't send a fucking code snippet without burning half the screen on whitespace and a 400px font size title lol
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