Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

dronedj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

731–740 of 742 posts

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#731

Post by toss1 »

deciplex wrote: post #730
toss1 wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Absolute nonsense. Ah, I se you are one of those who chooses to chooses to ignore the facts of the world [0,1,2,3,4,5]. This is just the top results of a 0.1second search And I notice that you completely avoided my serious question: If it is so much better in China, why are you not moving there? [0] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/04/China-must-co... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van [2] h…

> If it is so much better in China, why are you not moving there? I don't speak Chinese and I'm an American citizen. "If X is so great why don't you move to X?" is such a typical retort from reactionaries to any criticism of the status quo that it's literally a meme. I'm not surprised to find this on HN but I am surprised that you lack self-awareness to the extent that you're actually doubling down on it, here.

I'm not doubling down or using it as a retort. I wanted an actual answer to the question, particularly since you so adamantly claim that China is far for human rights than the USA.

Your answer is that it is friction of change from where you are, which is fine, although a bit at odds with your stridency about how bad the USA is and how innocent China is.

If you are right that China/CCP has already won, you should really consider getting motivated to overcome that friction and go there. Especially considering how most of the West is withdrawing from China, your skills and attitude will likely be quite welcome there.

(Or, perhaps consider that your motivation levels are not aligned with the attitude you present because maybe your attitudes aren't quite aligned with reality?)

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#732

Post by toss1 »

deciplex wrote: post #689
Workaccount2 wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is still a developing nation. China is winning at the junior economic Olympics. The same way all the major 1st world economies dominated it when they were developing. Come back and waive your victory banner when China has a $60k GDP per capita and has the current growth trends it does. It needs to increase its GDP 500% before that happens though...

China is the workshop of the world what are you even talking about? Their infrastructure is more developed (and more advanced) than most places in the US. You seemed to be confused by the fact that China hasn't financialized their economy and turned it into a giant Ponzi scheme / wealth extraction machine. That's the point: they're trying to avoid the terminal rent-seeking behavior endemic to Western economies.

>>China hasn't financialized their economy and turned it into a giant Ponzi scheme / wealth extraction machine.

OK, nevermind that China are struggling with massive real-estate and shadow banking issues that threaten collapse of their economy and serious global economic crisis. They may succeed, but it has been touch-and-go for years now.

And yes, their 'workshop of the world' initiative works when they can massively export at super-low prices, but that is ending for several reasons, in no small part due to the fact that they are an unreliable trading partner and have weaponized their trading position against partners in a variety of ways, including spying (e.g., Huawei), cutting off supplies (rare earths, etc.), and dumping goods under cost to corner markets.

You can get away with that for a while, and your numbers will look very good. But when you start to become a serious threat, you will find resistance. We are now at that point. China was supposed to have already surpassed the US as the worlds largest economy almost a decade ago. Now, it is no longer on that arc, despite having five times the population. Their BS is catching up with them.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#733

Post by mike_d »

segasaturn wrote: post #670
mike_d wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They didn't build the Utah Data Center because of their extremely limited amount of data. I love that people point to one of the smallest NSA data centers as if its going to prove some sort of point. Regardless, this is exactly the kind of whataboutism that I am talking about. Every government collects all the data it can. The difference is that the NSA targets foreign governments and terror organizations. The Chin…

>The difference is that the NSA targets foreign governments and terror organizations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOVEINT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_global_surveillance_discl... Sorry, but you seem a little naive. I recommend reading up on the US domestic surveillance program that the government was caught red handed engaging in.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOVEINT

We have almost a million people holding a TS or higher clearance, and have on average one incident a year of someone attempting to spy on a spouse or love interest, to which they get rolled up in their regular poly. So basically not a problem at all.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_global_surveillance_disc...

I never denied that the IC spies on foreign governments and terror organizations. In fact, we are really fucking good at it. You can't query or access domestic communications or those of USPER without review by the FISA courts and high level approval.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#734

Post by deciplex »

toss1 wrote: post #731
deciplex wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it is so much better in China, why are you not moving there? I don't speak Chinese and I'm an American citizen. "If X is so great why don't you move to X?" is such a typical retort from reactionaries to any criticism of the status quo that it's literally a meme. I'm not surprised to find this on HN but I am surprised that you lack self-awareness to the extent that you're actually doubling down on it, here.

I'm not doubling down or using it as a retort. I wanted an actual answer to the question, particularly since you so adamantly claim that China is far for human rights than the USA. Your answer is that it is friction of change from where you are, which is fine, although a bit at odds with your stridency about how bad the USA is and how innocent China is. If you are right that China/CCP has already won, you should real…

I don't think you know what the fuck you're talking about. One power eclipsing another does not imply a mass migration, as you suggest. It can just be... one power eclipsing another. It doesn't mean everyone can or even should move there, and it certainly doesn't mean that reactionary dickheads pushing back against any criticism of the status quo have some ace in the hole gotcha argument they can apply to any and all situations, as you seem to think. Your line of reasoning here, again, is transparently copium.

Quite the contrary, I will stay in the US because I anticipate that our loss of power and prestige vis a vis China will result in many structural changes as we are forced (often against cultural inertia) to embrace more advanced productive relations to have any hope of keeping up. I want to be here for that, thanks.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#735

Post by toss1 »

deciplex wrote: post #734
toss1 wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not doubling down or using it as a retort. I wanted an actual answer to the question, particularly since you so adamantly claim that China is far for human rights than the USA. Your answer is that it is friction of change from where you are, which is fine, although a bit at odds with your stridency about how bad the USA is and how innocent China is. If you are right that China/CCP has already won, you should real…

I don't think you know what the fuck you're talking about. One power eclipsing another does not imply a mass migration, as you suggest. It can just be... one power eclipsing another. It doesn't mean everyone can or even should move there, and it certainly doesn't mean that reactionary dickheads pushing back against any criticism of the status quo have some ace in the hole gotcha argument they can apply to any and all…

Since when does questioning whether one person might move equal a mass migration or and ace-in-the-hole argument? Your language seems to indicate a sore spot has been hit.

We will see how it turns out. The main question is whether China has stolen enough technological ideas and knowledge to achieve escape velocity on their own. They've enjoyed free reign for 'partnering', coercion, & industrial & academic espionage for decades, and have indeed made very significant advances. That access is now being curtailed. If China has gained enough, and has sufficient financial assets, and can manage it, it should be able to bootstrap itself to next levels. Or, it may start faltering, in no small part to the inherent structural limitations of authoritarian states.

I think it is very much an open question

I'd still put my chips on the Democracies. Betting against the USA has always been a bad bet. But it's still been less than 250 years, so things may change.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#736

Post by deciplex »

toss1 wrote: post #735
deciplex wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you know what the fuck you're talking about. One power eclipsing another does not imply a mass migration, as you suggest. It can just be... one power eclipsing another. It doesn't mean everyone can or even should move there, and it certainly doesn't mean that reactionary dickheads pushing back against any criticism of the status quo have some ace in the hole gotcha argument they can apply to any and all…

Since when does questioning whether one person might move equal a mass migration or and ace-in-the-hole argument? Your language seems to indicate a sore spot has been hit. We will see how it turns out. The main question is whether China has stolen enough technological ideas and knowledge to achieve escape velocity on their own. They've enjoyed free reign for 'partnering', coercion, & industrial & academic espionage f…

> Your language seems to indicate a sore spot has been hit.

Uh yeah? Because you're not arguing in good faith. As I've already said, "if you like it so much why don't you move there" is such a boring dogshit argument that even South Park made fun of it. Twenty years ago. It would be one thing if you knew anything about me or my circumstances, but since you don't, I can safely assume that you frequently apply this logic as a rebuttal to any criticism of the status quo, which is an extremely small-brained, liberal thing to do. Nice work.

At any rate, all states are authoritarian, so if there is some structural limitation inherent there, the US and China are on equal footing. The real structural limitation at issue here lies in the US where we have both a highly-centralized economy dominated by a few actors and one driven entirely by the profit motive. Not a good spot to be in unless you think rent-seeking is good for productivity. Which, hell, given your performance in this thread so far, maybe you do think that. But, it isn't. This explains the respective growth and development trajectories of both nations.

Anyway I'm done with this thread as you still haven't put anything compelling or thought provoking into any of your dozen or so posts here, and I'm not interested in reading any more of your reactionary liberal bullshit arguments, if that's what we're calling them. So feel free to put whatever witty zingers you like in your inevitable reply, with links to Adrian Zenz' Twitter account etc. I hope we don't cross paths here again.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#737

Post by deciplex »

toss1 wrote: post #732
deciplex wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is the workshop of the world what are you even talking about? Their infrastructure is more developed (and more advanced) than most places in the US. You seemed to be confused by the fact that China hasn't financialized their economy and turned it into a giant Ponzi scheme / wealth extraction machine. That's the point: they're trying to avoid the terminal rent-seeking behavior endemic to Western economies.

>>China hasn't financialized their economy and turned it into a giant Ponzi scheme / wealth extraction machine. OK, nevermind that China are struggling with massive real-estate and shadow banking issues that threaten collapse of their economy and serious global economic crisis. They may succeed, but it has been touch-and-go for years now. And yes, their 'workshop of the world' initiative works when they can massively…

Always a pleasure when people wail in anguish about Huawei when you consider even just the public record stuff the CIA and NSA etc have gotten away with over the years. And that's not even getting into the more tinfoil-hat shit a lot of which has mountains of circumstantial evidence to back it up.

No, I think the US is a much less reliable trading partner, even for aligned Western nations to say nothing of the rest of the world, and the pivot to China that virtually every nation on Earth is making, if it's not a functional tributary of the US (and even many of them, actually), speaks for itself.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#738

Post by wyager »

sofixa wrote: post #721
wyager wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A factory making billions to its owner doesn't improve the revenues, wealth or standard of living of more than 1 person... A factory producing luxury Louis Vuitton handbags... is irrelevant to the living conditions of the workers > Come on, this is Econ 101 and basic logic. You griping about luxury goods on principle isn't "Econ 101" or "basic logic". You can look at basically any material metric you like (cars own…

> You can look at basically any material metric you like (cars owned, house size, etc.) and Americans come out ahead Rate of personal bankruptcies? Homeownership rate? Median household net wealth? The amount of cars Americans have on absurd loans is entirely irrelevant to their personal wealth or lack thereof.

> The amount of cars Americans have on absurd loans is entirely irrelevant to their personal wealth or lack thereof.

The allocation of debt is essentially irrelevant - there are materially more, bigger, better cars per capita in the USA. Whether those cars get repo'd and transferred to richer Americans is irrelevant - you can't fake the material presence of more stuff.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#739

Post by Lord_Zero »

astromaniak wrote: post #483
geepytee wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll build a drone for you with open source components if you are shopping for one, it will cost more than a DJI but less than these other options.

Will it be as good. I mean control, video recording and signal. Compatible with some HD goggles? I really doubt, but if you can explain...

I have built drones before so I can answer.

The short answer is yes. It would be about a billion times better than anything you can buy RTF but also a lot more expensive.

Some (if not most) of the open source hardware would probably be built in China but this hardware can be flashed with Open Source software like betaflight.

If you doubt, just look at companies that sell drone parts/kits like https://www.getfpv.com/fpv.html check out their goggles section, they are all high end.

You ask about video re cording/signal. How can you possibly beat being able to hand-pick your VTX/VRX chip, or your camera? How can any pre-built commercial drone possibly compete with that?

Same with control. You can buy the best motors, the best ESCs, the best carbon fiber frame, the best parts to build and secure all the above. You just cant compete.

But some people lack the time, skills or patience to learn how to build one, and learn the software.

Re: DJI ban passes the House and moves on to the Senate

#740

Post by Breza »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #479
team_gold wrote: post #336

As someone who has a DJI Mini what are the options for a consumer drone made by a US company? Everything on https://www.diu.mil/blue-uas-cleared-list is either widely different, 15x as expensive, not purchasable by civilians at all, or all of the above. Parret appears to have stopped selling their consumer model entirely. Skydio 2+ seems like the closest thing but it also no longer appears to be for sale either. All…

I assume one of the goals of this is to change that by making it feasible for US companies to compete at least on the domestic market. Ukraine has shown that having domestic at-scale consumer drone production is a critical military capability. I bet part of the motivation behind this is protectionism to make sure this capability can be built up. Otherwise any war against China starts with China being able to make man…

It's scary to think about what China could do with the $100 million-$150 million the US spends on a single F-35.
Post reply on HN