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Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

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Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#41

Post by amarcheschi »

threeseed wrote: post #24

You could make this argument about any bundling. All of the 365 products as well as similar from Adobe etc have been bundled in ways to lock out competition. Even Spotify is planning to. At some point EU needs to bring clarity to their competition laws and decide what they want the landscape to look like. Because right now they are just making up the rules as they go.

What do you mean by "making up the rules as they go"? Microsoft was found in breach of the Article 102 of the Treaty on the functioning of european union, which was last modified in 2007, and the article it infringed on abuse of dominant position was ratified in 2003. Furthermore, two other companies (one of which is american) complained to the european commission about Teams and only then an investigation was started

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#42

Post by niek_pas »

flavius29663 wrote: post #33

I don't understand how Microsoft gets under fire so easily, but Google bundles everything in Android, and you can't even uninstall most of them (maps, gmail etc.). Same with iphones. This is regulatory tipping the balance.

Microsoft has an effective monopoly on business PCs. That may have something to do with it.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#43

Post by HumblyTossed »

flavius29663 wrote: post #33

I don't understand how Microsoft gets under fire so easily, but Google bundles everything in Android, and you can't even uninstall most of them (maps, gmail etc.). Same with iphones. This is regulatory tipping the balance.

You may have missed it, but Apple is definitely bumping heads with the EU right now.

And what do you mean you can't uninstall google maps and gmail? Are you using a Pixel?

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#44

Post by izacus »

flavius29663 wrote: post #33

I don't understand how Microsoft gets under fire so easily, but Google bundles everything in Android, and you can't even uninstall most of them (maps, gmail etc.). Same with iphones. This is regulatory tipping the balance.

Google absolutely has come under fire for it and has to now show browser choice dialogs just like Microsoft in EU.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#45

Post by manuelmoreale »

endisneigh wrote: post #35

Soon the EU will charge parents for giving their children undue advantages as well. In all seriousness - giving yourself an advantage is obviously what all companies want to do. Why doesn’t the EU just, for each company, say exactly what they want? I honestly don’t understand the EU - they don’t want any company to do anything to have an advantage compared to their competitors? Seems like an exercise in mediocrity. I…

So what's the alternative you're proposing? That we let companies abuse their position and do whatever they want?

> they don’t want any company to do anything to have an advantage compared to their competitors?

Let's imagine the answer to this question is yes. Let's assume the EU doesn't want any company to do anything to have an advantage and that they believe a company should gain or lose market only based on the quality of their output. Would that be a bad thing?

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#46

Post by quonn »

endisneigh wrote: post #40
quonn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All EU countries indeed have systems in place to limit undue advantages that any child can have (it's called a public education system and social security and later in life just "the law"). As for anti-trust issues, you clearly don't understand them.

You’re correct. I am not an expert on anti trust, but I do see that the EU has missed the boat on every new industry in the 21st century compared to the USA. We will see in 100 years if regulation was the right move or not. As for education - I doubt all public education in the EU is equivalent, or tutoring is banned, or additional resources, etc.

> I do see that the EU has missed the boat on every new industry in the 21st century compared to the USA.

Perhaps. But for completely different reasons, certainly not regulation. And furthermore, while this _may_ hurt the EU in the long-run, they are still very good at the kind of industries that employ a large number of people across all skillsets.

> We will see in 100 years if regulation was the right move or not.

No need to wait, we can see this right now. The internet and app economy is completely enshittified. Only regulation can fix this, the market had 20 years and it only got worse.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#47

Post by Retric »

flavius29663 wrote: post #33

I don't understand how Microsoft gets under fire so easily, but Google bundles everything in Android, and you can't even uninstall most of them (maps, gmail etc.). Same with iphones. This is regulatory tipping the balance.

There’s android phones sold without any Google Apps, read up on LineageOS.

Also both Apple and Android have come under fire about this stuff.

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#48

Post by LordKeren »

pif wrote: post #34

You'd expect them to have learnt the lesson with Internet Explorer but, as someone said, there is no way a man will understand something when his salary depends on him not understanding it!

The Internet Explorer lawsuit was also 20 years ago

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#49

Post by Ylpertnodi »

endisneigh wrote: post #40
quonn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All EU countries indeed have systems in place to limit undue advantages that any child can have (it's called a public education system and social security and later in life just "the law"). As for anti-trust issues, you clearly don't understand them.

You’re correct. I am not an expert on anti trust, but I do see that the EU has missed the boat on every new industry in the 21st century compared to the USA. We will see in 100 years if regulation was the right move or not. As for education - I doubt all public education in the EU is equivalent, or tutoring is banned, or additional resources, etc.

>I am not an expert on anti trust, but I do see that the EU has missed the boat on every new industry in the 21st century compared to the USA.

Are you able to cite any examples of 'missing the boat'?

Re: Microsoft breached antitrust rules by bundling Teams and Office, EU says

#50

Post by snowpid »

_heimdall wrote: post #30
snowpid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No do you have real problems with blurry laws in your country? (If so is this country in the EU?)

This is a really strange way to attempt to silence my opinion. Yes I do have issues with blurry laws. My current country is not in the EU, though until recently I was a resident of an EU country also with blurry laws. Am I allowed to have an opinion now?

For me it's sounds like a made up problem.

Again, most laws are blurry in a mathematical sense. This is the case since laws existed. And so and to a surprise for some HN people, we usually don't break them all day.

DMA is actually precise and rooted in competitions challenges all known. (E.g. the slack case was discussed very often) Complaining about the DMA is very strange. Also DMA targets big corpos, so needing a lawyer to understand all implications is again a none - issue.

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