The victim/god identity, along with the scapegoat theory of culture described in the lecture, derives from the interesting French thinker (and Stanford prof) René Girard.
Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"
31–40 of 49 posts
Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"
#32I am still thinking whats true and whats not in the text though...
Modern day scapegoats e.g. founders are just humiliated (Gates) and fired (Jobs) but not killed compared to earlier times scapegoats, who were actually sacrificed. So the question is, what kind of forces brought about the changes that made present times more civil?
So in a guaranteed civil environment, where the sacrificial lamb will never actually be sacrificed, but the most likely risks are not being able to make it (failed venture) or getting blamed and fired in a venture going downhill after hitting a peak, won't it make the averages go and try out things with a mind set 'if it works great, if it doesn't well the next time...'?
Heck even Google founders did try to sell it to Yahoo very early on. That's my chosen example of an average behavior, to counter the chosen examples in the OPs text.
So its all very interesting to read. But don't know what to do with it. But one thing I am sure of is that dedicated work and self sacrifice (like not wasting too much time enjoying here, and instead actually coding/working) does pay in some form down the line!
Addendum: Would want to add though, that my take away from the notes was extending the innovation period of a Startup. Not yielding to beaureucracy. If the intrigue was built to just drive in that point, it was well worth then.
Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"
#33Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"
#34This was the most interesting of this series of notes yet. And the conclusion was the weakest. Thiel seems like a pretty creepy character. When you have enough FU money, you can indulge a really skewed view of the world (former Intel exec comes to mind). And this series of lectures illustrates Theil's. He thinks someone, a young and naive (pre-university) prodigy, is going to make him a wealtier VC by sharing with hi…
Gotta love these ~30 minute old accounts with 7 karma howling at the moon that the neither the first successful online payments company, nor the most successful social network in Internet history, nor a ~$100billion/year big data company are 'innovative'. They may not be nuclear fusion or the perpetual motion machine, but they're more innovative than 99% of what everyone else will ever do. Your point about wealth buy…
It's true that most of these social media startups are overvalued garbage that are going to prove themselves to be career graveyards (or sandtraps, at the least) when the tide goes out. And the people who join these unimaginative VC darlings for 0.02% of the pie (with preferences against that equity) are going to lose big time. That said, the reflexive " isn't a real innovation" attitude when X is the solution to a real problem (e.g. self-driving cars, fraud detection, or even well-designed smart-phone interfaces) is a bit annoying. It may not be the flying car, but this X is usually something that came out of a lot of hard work on a problem that's just much more difficult than it seems it "should" be.
I think there's a resentment that builds in a lot of people due to a discrepancy between the real forces that produce technological improvements and the popular press. Reality: technological innovation is slow and incremental, with one seemingly insignificant change making another step possible, and that making another step feasible... until there is eventual macroscopic change, over time. It's gradual and, on the surface, doesn't appear that interesting. Popular depiction, for a contrast: visionary businessmen and "technologists" and "hackers" are driving the future. The backlash against that is that people single out these "visionaries" (many of whom are overrated) and denigrate everything they've accomplished as "not a real innovation". There's truth in the matter of these "visionaries" being overrated, but on the other hand, that doesn't mean that technological progress isn't happening. It's just gradual and unpredictable, and often fails to emerge where we want it. Technological progress actually pushes through on its own terms, rather than being pulled where wanted. For example, human transportation has been stagnant in price and quality (in the US) since 1960. That's a real morale problem on a national scale. But to single out Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg as "not real innovators" because they haven't cured cancer or delivered $40 worldwide airfares is a big of a leap.
Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"
#35The great sailor, of course.
Now, same experiment, except the weak sailor now gets a 1000 km/hr wind and the great one gets a 1 km/hr wind (hypothetically of course). Who wins the race now?
The weak sailor.
Now, who was responsible for winning the race? Was it the wind or was it the person who captured the wind? What's more important - the person who captures, or the gust that fills his sail? Replace sail with society and sailor with founder (adjust for time/economy/education/family). Now who's responsible for the success of the company? Was it the single factor person? Or the inumerable factor society?
What's more likely - that people are special (you're all special - just like mother told you), or that the situations they are placed in are? Are there really great men (or women), or are there in fact merely extraordinary situations that produce, as a side effect, those self-same "great" men/women?
Why do inventions have multiple origins, why are there always multiple companies in the same spaces being founded at the same time, why does innovation happen in specific situations rather than with specific groups of people? There were hundreds of search engines/social networks. The telephone was patented on the same day by multiple people. The radio has one of the most messy histories of invention I have ever seen.
"Founder as Victim, Founder as God" sounds a great deal like humans have a poor understanding of randomness. 15% of Fortune 500 CEOs are replaced every single year. Why is that? Maybe it's because people don't understand randomness and the astounding complexity inherent in large systems (the Earth for example).
Replace the CEO - that'll fix all our problems! Change strategy, that did it! We just need more synergy, better management, great leadership!
Let's ignore global macro factors like extraneous lowering of energy/technology costs, the economic cycle, geopolitical risk, time between war, sex, age, race, strong laws, strong defence, personal networks, position in society, number of humans alive, access to education, access to capital, actions of third parties, chance meetings and all the other things that go into these systems.
Yeah, the founders, that's who's important!
Just wave away everything else - we do love our narratives don't we (imagine life without films!).This is fundamental attribution error at work. The world is more complex than the people in it. CEOs don't cause great companies as much as you'd like that to be true. People don't cause great things to happen as much as people want that to be true. The world is very complex and humans are incredibly stupid.
Most people have trouble getting their heads around controlled static experiments in physics/AI. That's a tiny, tiny system. It takes a great deal of arrogance to talk of the world in such a generalized, grandiose way, without a shred of evidence apart from personal biases and inductive reasoning.
The plural of anecdote is not data.
You only see the winners people. Randomness is more important than you think it is. All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"
#36The scapegoating of Thiel in this thread is an amusing proof of concept, whatever the value of his ideas.
Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"
#37 PayPal’s founding team was six people.
...
Four of them built bombs when they were
in high school.
Surprised no one picked up on this (not that I could see anyway).When we hear about a kid who got caught building a bomb these days we never think Wow - they'll make a great entrepreneur some day!
Maybe we should learn not to judge children too harshly?
Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"
#38Early in a startup, founders will attract other who are like them (paypal a documented example). However, when the startup is big enough the perception of the founder compared to everyone else in the company has the naturally emergent property that the founder will be seen as different than everyone else. Now, the tipping point of this difference becoming a "dislike" could be company performance or bad luck. So the theory all seems to come together in V.B and V.C in article.
I did however, find some of the background to be confusing, particularly section I.D seems to make the case that king-ship is a matter of perception outside of the organization.
Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"
#39You have 2 sailors - one weak, the other great. They have the same wind behind their sails. Who will finish the race first? The great sailor, of course. Now, same experiment, except the weak sailor now gets a 1000 km/hr wind and the great one gets a 1 km/hr wind (hypothetically of course). Who wins the race now? The weak sailor. Now, who was responsible for winning the race? Was it the wind or was it the person who c…
...if only men would learn how little the cleverest and most gifted among them can control, how little they can know of all the multitude of factors the orderly movement of which is the history of the world...
Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"
#40The victim/god identity, along with the scapegoat theory of culture described in the lecture, derives from the interesting French thinker (and Stanford prof) René Girard.
it actually comes from batman vengeful, vigilante, uses fear and intimidation, but fights crime and never kills people paranoid, schizoid, extremely brilliant orphan billionaire philanthropist extreme insider+outsider
http://www.jonathanlipps.com/blog/2008/07/the-dark-knight-an...