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Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

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Re: Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

#11

Post by sailingparrot »

akira2501 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure thinking of the robots as "increasing safety" is a useful mindset. They increase the chance of rescue. If you needed one in the first place, it's because you unintentionally neglected safety well before they deployed the robot to you. Anyways.. as an aside.. if it's just about getting flotation devices out to them faster, why not a "life jacket cannon" mounted to the beach? If you really want to make it…

There are many reasons why a life jacket cannon is a terrible idea. How do you get perfect accuracy ? People that are drowning can’t swim anymore in many cases, they barely have energy to stay on the surface. So you can’t be off by 10 meters.

They also won’t have the energy to put the life jacket while already in the water. And while life jackets properly equipped around your torso make you float correctly, barely resting your arms on a life jacket is not terribly buoyant.

You need to account for wind, not just to aim, but also because the life jacket will drift away. And as it happens strong winds are responsible for rip currents and waves which is very often what causes drownings in the first place, so wind is the default environment, not an edge case.

Waves and surface currents have a strong chance of carrying away the jacket before the drowning person can get to it.

A system that can be course corrected to account for all of those parameters seem the best, its rigid, so will provide buoyancy even when just holding on the device, it’s also big enough to support more than one person, many drowning events involve more than one person (often someone that was initially trying to help end up getting themselves in trouble).

Re: Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

#12

Post by akira2501 »

beart wrote: post #9
akira2501 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure thinking of the robots as "increasing safety" is a useful mindset. They increase the chance of rescue. If you needed one in the first place, it's because you unintentionally neglected safety well before they deployed the robot to you. Anyways.. as an aside.. if it's just about getting flotation devices out to them faster, why not a "life jacket cannon" mounted to the beach? If you really want to make it…

This feels a bit like blaming the victim. There are any number of things that can go wrong which may or may not be under your control. Specifically, the Great Lakes are more like seas than lakes. They have rip currents that can unexpectedly get you into trouble.

The robot brings you a flotation device. You should have one of those already. You should be wearing it if you're on the water for exactly the reason you've stated. Almost no one actually does this.

I've lived and fished on the lake for years. It's great for recreation. Way too many people do so entirely unprepared and often drastically underestimate the impacts of alcohol out on a boat in the hot sun.

Re: Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

#13

Post by itishappy »

akira2501 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure thinking of the robots as "increasing safety" is a useful mindset. They increase the chance of rescue. If you needed one in the first place, it's because you unintentionally neglected safety well before they deployed the robot to you. Anyways.. as an aside.. if it's just about getting flotation devices out to them faster, why not a "life jacket cannon" mounted to the beach? If you really want to make it…

T-shirts and hats don't fly too straight. Robot paddleboards can steer.

Re: Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

#14

Post by akira2501 »

WheatMillington wrote: post #8
akira2501 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure thinking of the robots as "increasing safety" is a useful mindset. They increase the chance of rescue. If you needed one in the first place, it's because you unintentionally neglected safety well before they deployed the robot to you. Anyways.. as an aside.. if it's just about getting flotation devices out to them faster, why not a "life jacket cannon" mounted to the beach? If you really want to make it…

This is a semantic argument, but defining "safety" as mitigation and prevention of harm is valid.

Of course it is, which is why I said "not a useful _mindset_." I'm not arguing the semantics, just suggesting that allowing yourself to use them may alter your behavior in negative ways.

Re: Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

#15

Post by upheaval7276 »

brink wrote: post #5

Speaking of beach safety, this reminds me that I've been meaning to buy one of these. https://kingiistore.com/ I totally understand that not everyone wants to wear a life jacket all the time, me included.

Caution to anyone who clicks this link: mute your speakers first, or else you'll have to deal with blaring obnoxious music via an auto-play video that isn't visible without scrolling.

Re: Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

#16

Post by MengerSponge »

marcellus23 wrote: post #4

This isn't really a robot, more of just a remote-controlled boat. Still cool and a great idea for helping people who are drowning, of course. But seems misleading to call it a "robot", which (to me at least) implies some level of autonomy and more tech than you'd find in toy RC cars from 30 years ago.

Industrial "robots" often (generally?) have very little autonomy. It's helpful to not be constrained to the human form.

What is a robot? An automated laborer.

Re: Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

#17

Post by aftbit »

sailingparrot wrote: post #11
akira2501 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure thinking of the robots as "increasing safety" is a useful mindset. They increase the chance of rescue. If you needed one in the first place, it's because you unintentionally neglected safety well before they deployed the robot to you. Anyways.. as an aside.. if it's just about getting flotation devices out to them faster, why not a "life jacket cannon" mounted to the beach? If you really want to make it…

There are many reasons why a life jacket cannon is a terrible idea. How do you get perfect accuracy ? People that are drowning can’t swim anymore in many cases, they barely have energy to stay on the surface. So you can’t be off by 10 meters. They also won’t have the energy to put the life jacket while already in the water. And while life jackets properly equipped around your torso make you float correctly, barely re…

How about a flying drone that drops an inflatable from a few meters above the struggling swimmer?

Re: Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

#18

Post by brink »

upheaval7276 wrote: post #15
brink wrote: post #5

Speaking of beach safety, this reminds me that I've been meaning to buy one of these. https://kingiistore.com/ I totally understand that not everyone wants to wear a life jacket all the time, me included.

Caution to anyone who clicks this link: mute your speakers first, or else you'll have to deal with blaring obnoxious music via an auto-play video that isn't visible without scrolling.

What browser are you on that allows autoplaying video?

Re: Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

#19

Post by WheatMillington »

beart wrote: post #9
akira2501 wrote: post #3

I'm not sure thinking of the robots as "increasing safety" is a useful mindset. They increase the chance of rescue. If you needed one in the first place, it's because you unintentionally neglected safety well before they deployed the robot to you. Anyways.. as an aside.. if it's just about getting flotation devices out to them faster, why not a "life jacket cannon" mounted to the beach? If you really want to make it…

This feels a bit like blaming the victim. There are any number of things that can go wrong which may or may not be under your control. Specifically, the Great Lakes are more like seas than lakes. They have rip currents that can unexpectedly get you into trouble.

We wouldn't need seat belts if we simply didn't crash.

Re: Robots on Lake Michigan beaches to prevent drownings

#20

Post by MengerSponge »

akira2501 wrote: post #14
WheatMillington wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a semantic argument, but defining "safety" as mitigation and prevention of harm is valid.

Of course it is, which is why I said "not a useful _mindset_." I'm not arguing the semantics, just suggesting that allowing yourself to use them may alter your behavior in negative ways.

If the pandemic taught us anything (which it really, shockingly, didn't) it's that moral hazard is less of a risk than Chicago School economists would have you think.

Introducing mechanisms to keep people safer rarely yields the feared perverse behavior, so just introduce the bit of safety and keep a wary eye out for the perverse behavior.

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