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Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

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Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#231

Post by sofixa »

pjmorris wrote: post #152

For about ten years, I've theorized that we will see the rise of 'boutique' doctor, dentist, and law offices that keep only paper records for the sake of the privacy of their clients. There are a bunch of problems that connection and automation bring with them, the rise of digital monocultures seems to be one of them.

> For about ten years, I've theorized that we will see the rise of 'boutique' doctor, dentist, and law offices that keep only paper records for the sake of the privacy of their clients.

"Privacy" until a disgruntled staffer copies or takes a picture or just takes the pieces of paper and publishes them.

With digital systems, this can be mitigated (rate limiting, encryption and least privilege information sharing, audit logs etc.) to an extent. With paper, you're screwed.

I still remember a few years ago walking on a street in a city in Easter Europe, behind a bank office for a bank which no longer exists. There were dumpsters nearby that were overflowing with garbage, and the wind was carrying some of it around, like sheets of paper with bank loan applications, ID card scans, etc etc etc.

Paper is not easier to secure than digital systems if the people supposed to secure it don't care.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#232

Post by senthil_rajasek »

itsoktocry wrote: post #132
senthil_rajasek wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We buy so many things "sight unseen" because of the quality and reliability. As an average car consumer, I have done many test drives and gotten nothing out of it except the car salesman looking like he did something. I will buy a reliable car sight unseen like I bought my big screen t.v.

> We buy so many things "sight unseen" because of the quality and reliability. Name 1 or 2 other things you buy "sight unseen" that are remotely close to the cost of a new vehicle. > I will buy a reliable car sight unseen like I bought my big screen t.v. If you have zero preference for the multitude of ways even similar cars can vary, you aren't an average car buyer. Most people care about these things, be it sight l…

>Name 1 or 2 other things you buy "sight unseen" that are remotely close to the cost of a new vehicle

That question cannot be answered, we all know that nothing is comparable to that price in an average household's shopping list.

But a few years ago a shoe purchase was in store only but a month ago I bought a new pair online. Because I knew that I could try it and return it easily.

Luckily, I didn't have to return.

I wish I could do the same with cars.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#233

Post by callalex »

lolinder wrote: post #214

I'm reminded of the opening line of the second Mistborn novel: > I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted. The digital world feels increasingly dangerous and ephemeral. If I have something written with ink on paper I have certain guarantees: I know that it's accessible even if the power is completely out. I know that it won't randomly get deleted if my hard drive suddenly dies. I…

Flood and fire are only getting more and more common.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#234

Post by lolinder »

callalex wrote: post #233
lolinder wrote: post #214

I'm reminded of the opening line of the second Mistborn novel: > I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted. The digital world feels increasingly dangerous and ephemeral. If I have something written with ink on paper I have certain guarantees: I know that it's accessible even if the power is completely out. I know that it won't randomly get deleted if my hard drive suddenly dies. I…

Flood and fire are only getting more and more common.

Yeah, but the prevention measures for loss due to those are well understood by every adult and easy to take into your own hands as either a business or a regular person.

The prevention measures for digital catastrophes are not widely understood by those outside the industry and most people would have to outsource them to someone else without any way of knowing for sure that what they have set up will actually work if push comes to shove.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#235

Post by gist »

spamizbad wrote: post #4

I know some (former) CDK alumni and I'm not surprised. Notorious for paying below market in engineering and IT. A place to cut your teeth but not to stay.

> Notorious for paying below market in engineering and IT

Why assume that good people are only driven by money and pay? Further that good people know all the opportunities and can get a job paying better? Also there is no evidence that I have seen that the places that pay better don't suffer from cyber attacks or ransomware.

A bigger part of the problem (maybe) is the fact that there is a vast amount of info published which helps people improve their hacking skills and make more attacks possible than would be the case if that info was not as easily available. (Note I did not say anything that indicates it wouldn't still be possible or happen but that it wouldn't be as easy to do).

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#236

Post by sofixa »

itsoktocry wrote: post #33
SSJPython wrote: post #15

Related note: car stealerships are a relic of the past. There is no reason why a middleman should exist when buying a car. Consumers should have the option to purchase directly from the manufacturer. I am personally not a fan of Tesla as a vehicle, but I admire the business model of buying directly from Tesla. Stealerships are a drain on the consumer. All that land they own can be used for productive economic activit…

> Consumers should have the option to purchase directly from the manufacturer. They should have the option , sure. But what difference do you think this makes in reality? The process ends up being the similar. > but I admire the business model of buying directly from Tesla A lot of people don't want to buy a $40,000+ item online. Tesla understands this, which is why they opened "showrooms" to have real people walk yo…

> But what difference do you think this makes in reality? The process ends up being the similar.

But there isn't a middleman with big facilities and staff to feed, so the resulting product can be cheaper, with the process being streamlined because the middleman's job is to milk you for all they can, meanwhile the original vendor just wants to sell their product.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#237

Post by hansvm »

rvba wrote: post #221
lolinder wrote: post #214

I'm reminded of the opening line of the second Mistborn novel: > I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted. The digital world feels increasingly dangerous and ephemeral. If I have something written with ink on paper I have certain guarantees: I know that it's accessible even if the power is completely out. I know that it won't randomly get deleted if my hard drive suddenly dies. I…

I was recently looking at a 15 year old manual for an appliance. It had a sales recepit attached. Despite being put inside some papers, in a plastic case and then in a binder (kept in the closet)... the recepit just evaporated. The print is nearly invisible. Is that done on purpose?

The other answers mentioned _what_ happened. In terms of next steps:

(1) Generally, receipts should be scanned (and perhaps re-printed, depending on your needs) for any sort of conservation effort. The heat from scanning (not in any modern tech, just as an FYI so you can decide for yourself) can cause the same degredation. It doesn't necessarily take a long time either. If you ever order a pizza where the driver tucked the receipt in the box you'll also notice that chunk of the receipt is illegible.

(2) If it's partially visible in its current state, you can probably get away with increasing the contrast and applying a decent OCR to the result. You'll get some hallucinations, but if you fill in the most likely characters conforming to the grammar of a typical receipt you're likely to be in the right ballpark (if you need a particular warranty code or something you might have to manually try a few options for particularlly blurry letters). Pair that with a photo of the receipt in its current state for any distrusting shopkeeps.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#238

Post by panzagl »

callalex wrote: post #233
lolinder wrote: post #214

I'm reminded of the opening line of the second Mistborn novel: > I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted. The digital world feels increasingly dangerous and ephemeral. If I have something written with ink on paper I have certain guarantees: I know that it's accessible even if the power is completely out. I know that it won't randomly get deleted if my hard drive suddenly dies. I…

Flood and fire are only getting more and more common.

Cuneiform as a Service

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#239

Post by gist »

SSJPython wrote: post #15

Related note: car stealerships are a relic of the past. There is no reason why a middleman should exist when buying a car. Consumers should have the option to purchase directly from the manufacturer. I am personally not a fan of Tesla as a vehicle, but I admire the business model of buying directly from Tesla. Stealerships are a drain on the consumer. All that land they own can be used for productive economic activit…

> car stealerships are a relic of the past. There is no reason why a middleman should exist when buying a car. Consumers should have the option to purchase directly from the manufacturer.

This is really such a classic clueless HN comment from someone who both doesn't understand business and hasn't taken the time to understand why things are done the way that they are. (My comment doesn't mean in any way that things can't and shouldn't change and/or can't be improved. But seriously calling them in part 'stealerships'. And 'there is no reason'. Thanks for having it all figured out.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#240

Post by chrisco255 »

callalex wrote: post #233
lolinder wrote: post #214

I'm reminded of the opening line of the second Mistborn novel: > I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted. The digital world feels increasingly dangerous and ephemeral. If I have something written with ink on paper I have certain guarantees: I know that it's accessible even if the power is completely out. I know that it won't randomly get deleted if my hard drive suddenly dies. I…

Flood and fire are only getting more and more common.

Those two phenomenon are quite incompatible.
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