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Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

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Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#41

Post by vunderba »

SSJPython wrote: post #15

Related note: car stealerships are a relic of the past. There is no reason why a middleman should exist when buying a car. Consumers should have the option to purchase directly from the manufacturer. I am personally not a fan of Tesla as a vehicle, but I admire the business model of buying directly from Tesla. Stealerships are a drain on the consumer. All that land they own can be used for productive economic activit…

That's a hell of a purchase to make effectively "sight unseen" without the ability to test drive the vehicle first which you would do at a dealership.

The last vehicle I purchased was certified preowned and I went through several models before landing on one - much of my decision was based on how the vehicle handled to me.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#42

Post by DowagerDave »

legitster wrote: post #32
SSJPython wrote: post #15

Related note: car stealerships are a relic of the past. There is no reason why a middleman should exist when buying a car. Consumers should have the option to purchase directly from the manufacturer. I am personally not a fan of Tesla as a vehicle, but I admire the business model of buying directly from Tesla. Stealerships are a drain on the consumer. All that land they own can be used for productive economic activit…

It is kind of a crazy model. You don't go to the Pepsi store for Pepsi and the Coke store for Coke. The exclusivity dealerships get enshrined in law is kinda nuts. Still, I think there is something to be said for independent dealerships overall for service quality. Trying to get a Tesla serviced is still something of a nightmare. In comparison the service departments of dealerships have are much more robust.

And there's a HUGE ecosystem of repair, service and resale around traditional dealer networks. I'm pretty sure Tesla would say that for their model (that doesn't have this) this is a feature - from which they benefit immensely.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#43

Post by itsoktocry »

kevingadd wrote: post #25
SSJPython wrote: post #15

Related note: car stealerships are a relic of the past. There is no reason why a middleman should exist when buying a car. Consumers should have the option to purchase directly from the manufacturer. I am personally not a fan of Tesla as a vehicle, but I admire the business model of buying directly from Tesla. Stealerships are a drain on the consumer. All that land they own can be used for productive economic activit…

It's interesting, because in theory the requirement for independent dealerships could promote competition - they can compete to offer the lowest markup over MSRP, offer different addons, or offer better service. Just like going to a specialist shop for computer parts or audio gear or whatnot. But instead we ended up with a system where car dealerships basically own local lawmakers and got laws passed that not only pr…

>But instead we ended up with a system where car dealerships basically own local lawmakers and got laws passed that not only prevent the manufacturer from competing with them, but make it really hard for people to start new dealerships to compete with them.

There are practical reasons for this. People buy expensive items and expect to be able to get those items maintained and serviced. If the business was cutthroat, that could be more difficult. I don't want my dealer going bankrupt, frankly.

But the idea that dealerships aren't out there competing with each other is insane. Have you ever actually bought a new car?

>And the experience shopping for cars at a dealership is absolutely terrible, which shows you that they don't feel any pressure to compete.

Just the complete opposite experience I've had in my lifetime of buying new vehicles. And the idea that they don't compete is an outright fabrication. You have an incredible amount of leverage buying a car, and you can shop quotes around.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#44

Post by SoftTalker »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #11
lylejantzi3rd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they have any competition?

My hot take is auto dealers are a notoriously painful enterprise sales cycle due to network effects aka "good 'ol boys" club (anecdotally from folks in tech who have to deal in this industry).

Many are also not tech-savvy. Many dealerships are inherited within a family that has owned them since the 1950s if not longer. They are cash cows for the owners and there's little motivation to try new things. When they are forced to, like when internet sales and marketing became a thing they had to deal with, they just go with the same system that all their fellow dealers are using.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#45

Post by gpm »

legitster wrote: post #32
SSJPython wrote: post #15

Related note: car stealerships are a relic of the past. There is no reason why a middleman should exist when buying a car. Consumers should have the option to purchase directly from the manufacturer. I am personally not a fan of Tesla as a vehicle, but I admire the business model of buying directly from Tesla. Stealerships are a drain on the consumer. All that land they own can be used for productive economic activit…

It is kind of a crazy model. You don't go to the Pepsi store for Pepsi and the Coke store for Coke. The exclusivity dealerships get enshrined in law is kinda nuts. Still, I think there is something to be said for independent dealerships overall for service quality. Trying to get a Tesla serviced is still something of a nightmare. In comparison the service departments of dealerships have are much more robust.

Everyone I know IRL never gets their car serviced at the actual dealership, always going to a third party repair shop.

Tesla has service issues, I'm not sure that they're related to their lack of dealerships though.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#46

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

n4r9 wrote: post #13

This is what happens when a single player (CDK Global) has massive market share (90% when measured by number of vehicles sold [0] --- EDIT: this is actually the combined market share of CDK + Reynolds, who have a non-compete agreement ---). The entire industry becomes fragile to product issues and/or malicious attacks. Anti-trust is important. [0] https://casetext.com/case/loop-llc-v-cdk-global-llc-in-re-de...

> CDK Global has massive market share 90% when measured by number of vehicles sold

I suspect we're missing some nuance in that 90%. US dealerships are dominated by UCS(Reynolds&Reynolds) and CDK. ADP and DealerTrack have a fair amount. I used to provide support for three of those.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#47

Post by ThalesX »

I was involved in the building of the 911 system for my country. When doing that, we had to design it with this in mind.

If the system ever fell down, the operators had standard templated papers they would fill, and once the system would be back up they would add the case data back in.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#48

Post by bcrosby95 »

xnx wrote: post #40
bcrosby95 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did work that way though. I've never payed MSRP on a brand new car. Good luck doing that if all you can do is order from the manufacturer's website.

Would iPhones be less expensive if you could only get them from local dealers and not Apple?

It depends upon if Apple tried to set price controls and how successful they were at pursuing businesses that violated them.

For example, Games Workshop doesn't like when 3rd party retailers charge less, but it's easy to find 3rd party retailers that charge less than Games Workshop on their website.

In response they've increasingly made certain models online only and its always at full markup.

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#49

Post by blantonl »

I bought a new car this weekend and some of the symptoms of this were:

* dealer didn't have a good handle on what was available in stock on the lot * anything related to a title for a tradein was massively hampered. * appears USAA's auto insurance online add/replace vehicle on your policy is broken * everything was literally hand written, down to the sales contract

I would imagine the impact of this is in the tens of millions of dollars

Re: Car dealerships revert to pens and paper after cyberattacks on software provider

#50

Post by mattmcknight »

AlexandrB wrote: post #36
SSJPython wrote: post #15

Related note: car stealerships are a relic of the past. There is no reason why a middleman should exist when buying a car. Consumers should have the option to purchase directly from the manufacturer. I am personally not a fan of Tesla as a vehicle, but I admire the business model of buying directly from Tesla. Stealerships are a drain on the consumer. All that land they own can be used for productive economic activit…

> All that land they own can be used for productive economic activity or housing. No it can't. You still need places where cars can be repaired as well as storage for parts/cars inventory. The only way you reclaim some land is if service gets worse. Edit: For example, Tesla sells direct to consumers but there's still a Tesla "showroom" in my town. In terms of footprint/appearance it's basically a dealership. So where…

The Tesla showroom near me is much smaller than a dealership.

That said, still need somewhere to buy/sell used cars.

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