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US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

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Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#131

Post by npteljes »

cjk2 wrote: post #72
murderfs wrote: post #55

The author of this has been on a crusade against Apple for years, stemming from an incident that was probably hypochondria. They've outright lied about multiple incidents (see https://twitter.com/shantinix/status/1433297575914971136 ), and I would very strongly doubt any new claims made. For example, a spot check of one of the claims has them currently saying "Still, Gjovik’s limited testing returned results showing…

This is in line of when I worked in a semiconductor lab in suburban UK in the 90s. We had a couple of local residents report problems immediately even though we hadn't even started fabrication at that point. They eventually sent out a press release saying that we had moved manufacturing to Scotland. The complaints stopped instantly. The lab was running until at least 2017 with no complaints and regular inspections fr…

Similar hysteria surrounds the 5G rollout as well. I remember anecdotes of people reporting health issues, when the already erected tower wasn't even on, but unfortunately I can't find the source for this again.

In general, I find that people are hit or miss regarding their observations. Sometimes they are so on point that they seem like a savant, and sometimes they miss the mark so hard that I find believing anything further impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G_misinformation#List_of_prot...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#132

Post by cjk2 »

npteljes wrote: post #131
cjk2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in line of when I worked in a semiconductor lab in suburban UK in the 90s. We had a couple of local residents report problems immediately even though we hadn't even started fabrication at that point. They eventually sent out a press release saying that we had moved manufacturing to Scotland. The complaints stopped instantly. The lab was running until at least 2017 with no complaints and regular inspections fr…

Similar hysteria surrounds the 5G rollout as well. I remember anecdotes of people reporting health issues, when the already erected tower wasn't even on, but unfortunately I can't find the source for this again. In general, I find that people are hit or miss regarding their observations. Sometimes they are so on point that they seem like a savant, and sometimes they miss the mark so hard that I find believing anythin…

5G was a fun one. When they built the 5G tower near me they didn't put any equipment in it. People complained about it at local planning meeting saying that it was giving them migraines, then someone burned it down. I moved and I have 5G but they still don't.

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#133

Post by npteljes »

dinobones wrote: post #42

Apple, you have infinite money. Just pay this lady the $50,000,000 she wants so she can move to a nice clean place over in Atherton. And pay your fines to the government and move your fabs to remote areas so this doesn’t happen again. There, problem solved. I’ve saved everyone millions of dollars in litigation fees, time, and now our judiciary system can tackle other problems.

That is not how humans work unfortunately. If any word gets out that a settlement like that can happen, then suddenly there is going to be a lot of people sick with such symptoms. It's the same reason why the "not negotiating with terrorists" policy is in place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_negotiation_with_te...

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#134

Post by eqvinox »

canogat wrote: post #70
fxtentacle wrote: post #64

I find it surprising that apparently she's suing Apple not only for dumping toxic chemicals into the air directly next to her apartment, but also for an unrelated case of Apple's security videotaping the women's toilet rooms. That chemical court case seems very strong to me, with multiple indipendent parties having measured the gas in the air. (Edit: and multiple government agencies reporting chemical accidents at Ap…

I recognized her name when this story dropped. She’s been on an Apple vendetta for some time.

People can be right and on a vendetta at the same time. The only thing relevant for this heading is: does the EPA report point at an actual problem?

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#135

Post by eqvinox »

Was looking for a better source (or better data), found this:

"Emergency Permit for Treatment of Hazardous Waste, Apple, Inc., Sunnyvale, California" https://ceqanet.opr.ca.gov/2022120706

… but it's for half a liter of some weird shit that seems to primarily be a fire hazard(?)

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#136

Post by Infinity315 »

There is a disappointing amount of character slander rather than refutation of the author's claims happening on this thread. The foremost trustworthy party is the EPA.

Note, I am not a lawyer or anyone who could professionally give an opinion on this.*

The most egregious violation the author purports Apple did is the illegal venting of hazardous chemicals.

IMHO, the most plausible evidence supporting the author's claim can be found in the (redacted) EPA report in observation #11.[1]

My understanding is that waste streams (hazardous materials being vented into the environment) must be accounted for in order to accurately calculate how often you must change carbon filters (called breakthrough time in the report) and that carbon filters lose efficacy as hazardous gasses are passed through it.

Anyways, the report found that Apple did not account for all the waste they were putting through the filters and thus could not accurately assess the "breakthrough time" of the filters. There is a plausible case that could be made that a filter had reached its "breakthrough time" -- potentially leaking hazardous gases into the environment. This reportedly has been occurring since atleast* Dec 2020, which could be around the time the author moved in which was also 2020 (unspecified range).

1. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/312oqvretg7yyhfx0ohx4/AGZduVX...

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#138

Post by npteljes »

cjk2 wrote: post #132
npteljes wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar hysteria surrounds the 5G rollout as well. I remember anecdotes of people reporting health issues, when the already erected tower wasn't even on, but unfortunately I can't find the source for this again. In general, I find that people are hit or miss regarding their observations. Sometimes they are so on point that they seem like a savant, and sometimes they miss the mark so hard that I find believing anythin…

5G was a fun one. When they built the 5G tower near me they didn't put any equipment in it. People complained about it at local planning meeting saying that it was giving them migraines, then someone burned it down. I moved and I have 5G but they still don't.

This is exactly the type of story I remember reading about too.

I feel the best type of public education would have been the listing of the many electromagnetic radiation sources we already have. Taking a sample person, say, from inner London, and enumerate just how many of the radiation gets to them already, from the 4G and previous sources, radio, the different equipment that a city has, and so on. I feel like people are missing the historical context is these cases, same with the COVID vaccine. We were already subject to many of the vaccines, and in many cases, the COVID vaccine wasn't anything different.

https://www.immunize.org/official-guidance/state-policies/re...

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#139

Post by spacemule »

murderfs wrote: post #55

The author of this has been on a crusade against Apple for years, stemming from an incident that was probably hypochondria. They've outright lied about multiple incidents (see https://twitter.com/shantinix/status/1433297575914971136 ), and I would very strongly doubt any new claims made. For example, a spot check of one of the claims has them currently saying "Still, Gjovik’s limited testing returned results showing…

I'm naturally inclined to be suspicious of people claiming pollution is the cause of a disease. It's certainly possible, and it certainly happens, but every individual case is a sample size of one, and the best we can say is it's likely an environmental factor played a part. On top of this, it seems the claimant has either through frustration or with malicious intent exaggerated or fabricated some of the claims. So, I'll agree with you to be highly skeptical.

On the other hand, it's entirely reasonable to assume that a large corporation would maximize its profits: it has a duty to. If the expected profits exceed the expected costs of breaking the law, guess what's going to happen. Probably the fairest outcome here is better enforcement mechanisms. Unfortunately, this outcome leaves both parties worse off in exchange for an improvement to society.

Re: US EPA Enforcement and Compliance on Apple Fabrication

#140

Post by jhanschoo »

insaneirish wrote: post #40
Reason077 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "One thing is for sure, it's not a silicon fab." Why do you say that? Yes, the EPA report seems to be redacted to obscure what they're actually doing there. But there are multiple reports, some from Apple employees, that refer to it as a being some sort of small scale, "skunkworks" silicon fab.

> Why do you say that? Mainly because Apple's custom silicon could not even be prototyped in a small scale facility. It'd likely be in Taiwan. > But there are multiple reports, some from Apple employees, that refer to it as a being some sort of small scale, "skunkworks" silicon fab. I apologize if I missed them. Please highlight. Curious of the credentials of the folks reporting such a thing, as well.

It seems obvious to me that not every prototype needs to be done in TSMC's factories, and there are things that you can validate with cheaper processes.
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