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The tiny chip that powers Montreal subway tickets

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21–30 of 525 posts

Re: The tiny chip that powers Montreal subway tickets

#21
This is fascinating. We were just in Europe where we experienced these tickets for the first time. I had trouble with them; I was trying to figure out how to scan them because it never occurred to me that they might contain an NFC chip.

My wife, on the other hand, who is not at all technical, took it for granted that you would tap them and immediately figured it out intuitively.

Re: The tiny chip that powers Montreal subway tickets

#23

This wasn’t super obvious to me until later in the article but this is about the single use tickets. Neat stuff, though I can’t say I love the concept of e-waste NFC.

Assuming that it doesn't become litter on the street what is the actual impact of such waste?

Re: The tiny chip that powers Montreal subway tickets

#24

This wasn’t super obvious to me until later in the article but this is about the single use tickets. Neat stuff, though I can’t say I love the concept of e-waste NFC.

Assuming that it doesn't become litter on the street what is the actual impact of such waste?

All of the waste that went into producing it of course.

IC fabrication produces a lot of chemical waste, and I would imagine that these ICs aren't fabbed in a place that has a great track record on pollution.

Re: The tiny chip that powers Montreal subway tickets

#25

This wasn’t super obvious to me until later in the article but this is about the single use tickets. Neat stuff, though I can’t say I love the concept of e-waste NFC.

I don't like the e-waste aspect either, but realistically, the chip is so minuscule that the amount of waste is trivial compared to almost anything else you might discard. The chip is literally the size of a grain of salt.

The other factor is that people who use tickets regularly would use the rechargeable plastic cards, rather than the disposable tickets, so the amount of waste is reduced.

Re: The tiny chip that powers Montreal subway tickets

#26

This wasn’t super obvious to me until later in the article but this is about the single use tickets. Neat stuff, though I can’t say I love the concept of e-waste NFC.

Agreed! In Rome for some time now one can top up his paper NFC ticket; there is no reason to throw it away.

Re: The tiny chip that powers Montreal subway tickets

#27
post #2

Author here for all your NFC chip questions :-)

I am interested in the plastic layer with conductive traces for the antenna. How are these made? Do you know of a source that talks about the production process for them?

I don't know personally about the antenna manufacturing, but one web page talks about printable conductive silver ink for producing RFID antennas. https://www.sunchemical.com/product/printed-antenna/

Re: The tiny chip that powers Montreal subway tickets

#28

This is fascinating. We were just in Europe where we experienced these tickets for the first time. I had trouble with them; I was trying to figure out how to scan them because it never occurred to me that they might contain an NFC chip. My wife, on the other hand, who is not at all technical, took it for granted that you would tap them and immediately figured it out intuitively.

Where do you live? Chicago has had these contactless paper tickets since 2013

Re: The tiny chip that powers Montreal subway tickets

#29
post #25

This wasn’t super obvious to me until later in the article but this is about the single use tickets. Neat stuff, though I can’t say I love the concept of e-waste NFC.

I don't like the e-waste aspect either, but realistically, the chip is so minuscule that the amount of waste is trivial compared to almost anything else you might discard. The chip is literally the size of a grain of salt. The other factor is that people who use tickets regularly would use the rechargeable plastic cards, rather than the disposable tickets, so the amount of waste is reduced.

The chip is the size of a grain of salt, but there's a relatively huge antenna inside made of conducting material (metal?) and glue and all that.

Re: The tiny chip that powers Montreal subway tickets

#30

On the topic of NFC: my iPhone ApplePay thing taps so much more reliably than any of my credit or debit cards. Is this because it has its own power supply and doesn’t have to first be powered up by the machine?

NFC supports passive mode (where one side is powered and the card is not) and active mode (where both sides are powered). So, yes, your phone is probably more reliable because it provides a powered data transmission.

An NFC card doesn't actively transmit data. Instead, it sends data using "load modulation", where it switches a load across the antenna to change how much power it absorbs. The transmitter can detect this change in power, but the signal is extremely weak (80 decibels below the transmitted signal), so it's amazing that it works at all.

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