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Greece introduces the six day work week

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Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#121

Post by deninho »

kjksf wrote: post #20

I'm confused because economically it doesn't add up. Shortages of labor should lead to higher wages. Supply and demand. So it would make sense to relax laws prohibiting working more than 40hrs in order to unleash additional economic output i.e. increase the amount of money made. The article claims that for some reason that defies logic, it will just make employers demand more work for same amount of money. I see two…

The country is basically a huge cartel. The business owners have colluded to fix prices, wages, supply. In every industry or business sector. It's just effed up. Whoever has normal goals, like having a family that they can support and give them a quality of live and not just make meets end, is trying to find job in another country.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#122

Post by bluepuma77 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #84
stavros wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no vacancies. On the contrary, there's a whole slew of 20-somethings willing to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for six months for 1k/mo so they have some money during the winter.

From the opening text of TFA: > From the construction industry to the tourism sector, Greek employers cannot find the staff they need.

Yes, but what’s the reason behind this?

If you have bad working conditions (overtime, weekends) and pay very low salary, who wants those jobs?

Greece is in EU, so the workers can just move to better paying places (Germany, France, Nordics).

Maybe they rather need to tackle their many times mentioned corruption problems, so the value created can be distributed also among the workers.

So that work becomes worthwhile again.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#123

Post by eesmith »

timonoko wrote: post #101
eesmith wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Seemed" meaning through the media you watched while living in Finland? And you think that gives a good representative view of what the US was like in the 1970s? The news and shows you watched from the US were mostly made in large cities in California and New York. Parts of the US in the 1970s certainly had blue laws similar to what you mention. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_laws_in_the_United_States mentions th…

Erh. What? I bicycled across America in 1984. Never seen in any other country that a food store can be open at midnight. As regards 1979 Finland, this was far after beforementioned reforms. I remember I almost died on a 100km sunday trip in 1966. Not even kiosks were open in Porvoo. I drank water from a ditch and got instant diarré. Fainted couple of times, but some trucker eventually saved me.

You wrote "50 years ago." 1974 is closer to 1979 than 1966.

1984 is 40 years ago.

Yes, 1950s Finland is different from 1980s US. Blue laws were also stronger in 1950s US.

Edit: Tourist book from 1968, https://archive.org/details/fieldingstravel00fiel/page/427/m... "Shopping hours: Weekdays, 8:30 A.M. TO 5 P.M., plus 6 P.M. on Fridays; Saturdays, 8:30 A.M. to 4 P.M. in winter, with 3 P.M. closings in summer.

A few pages earlier, it says hairdressers are generally open 8AM to 5PM.

It seems like a pretty good nightlife scene. On page 412, "Always go late to savor Helsinki nightlight (except to Espilä which wraps up the evening at 1 A.M.) The gear shifts of merriment seldom mesh into overdrive before 11 P.M. - and from then onward, they're off and racing."

Earlier on the same page it also mentions "Prayer Sundays" - four Sundays of the year where there is no public entertainment between 6pm Saturday and 6pm Sunday.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#124

Post by eesmith »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #105
eesmith wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Seemed" meaning through the media you watched while living in Finland? And you think that gives a good representative view of what the US was like in the 1970s? The news and shows you watched from the US were mostly made in large cities in California and New York. Parts of the US in the 1970s certainly had blue laws similar to what you mention. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_laws_in_the_United_States mentions th…

A long time ago my retort when someone would claim California's government was oppressive was; I can walk into the grocery store Sunday morning and buy hard liquor.

How did you know that the Soviet Union and other oppressive governments prohibited Sunday morning vodka sales?

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#125

Post by Jensson »

squidbeak wrote: post #47
pdimitar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are only separate in the strict dictionary sense. You can't have an efficient general robot if it is not handled by a general-ish AI.

But you can have AGI in advance of (or without) Robotics.

We already have affordable advanced robotics, what we lack is AI to control the robot limbs accurately and carefully enough to match humans.

This robot is $1600 today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ClYBtfhkaw

I don't see a future where we have AGI but don't have affordable full fledged household robots costing like a car or less. Where are already at the point where you pay more for the programming than the robot itself.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#126

Post by Engineering-MD »

solarkraft wrote: post #82
imiric wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the gains from increased productivity have been reaped by executives, not workers. You keep working the same hours to make your bosses more money, when you could be working less instead. This income gap has been widening since the 1970s[1,2]. [1]: https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/a-guide... [2]: https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/

This is true (and a problem worth debating). But it would intuitively suggest that the total amount of work to do would reduce. Instead, somehow, we have always found new stuff to do in the past.

Chasing smaller and smaller returns/optimisations because you can, not because you should

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#127

Post by throw0101b »

imiric wrote: post #77
klysm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of automation has ever seemed to result in a net reduction in work to do thus far

Because the gains from increased productivity have been reaped by executives, not workers. You keep working the same hours to make your bosses more money, when you could be working less instead. This income gap has been widening since the 1970s[1,2]. [1]: https://www.cbpp.org/research/poverty-and-inequality/a-guide... [2]: https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/

>> No amount of automation has ever seemed to result in a net reduction in work to do thus far

> Because the gains from increased productivity have been reaped by executives, not workers.

Or also people like working, for some value of "like":

> Now it is true that the needs of human beings may seem to be insatiable. But they fall into two classes --those needs which are absolute in the sense that we feel them whatever the situation of our fellow human beings may be, and those which are relative in the sense that we feel them only if their satisfaction lifts us above, makes us feel superior to, our fellows. Needs of the second class, those which satisfy the desire for superiority, may indeed be insatiable; for the higher the general level, the higher still are they. But this is not so true of the absolute needs-a point may soon be reached, much sooner perhaps than we are all of us aware of, when these needs are satisfied in the sense that we prefer to devote our further energies to non-economic purposes.

[…]

> For many ages to come the old Adam will be so strong in us that everybody will need to do some work if he is to be contented. We shall do more things for ourselves than is usual with the rich to-day, only too glad to have small duties and tasks and routines. But beyond this, we shall endeavour to spread the bread thin on the butter-to make what work there is still to be done to be as widely shared as possible. Three-hour shifts or a fifteen-hour week may put off the problem for a great while. For three hours a day is quite enough to satisfy the old Adam in most of us!

* John Maynard Keynes, "Economic Possibilities for our Grandchildren" (1930)

* http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf

An essay putting forward / hypothesizing four reasons on why the above did not happen (We haven't spread the wealth around enough; People actually love working; There's no limit to human desires; Leisure is expensive):

* https://www.vox.com/2014/11/20/7254877/keynes-work-leisure

Just any person who retired (many of whom take on part-time jobs, not for primarily for money, but for the social aspects).

(Not to deny that, in a capitalism society, the capitalisms often get the 'excess' value created.)

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#128

Post by red-iron-pine »

brewtide wrote: post #98
MiguelX413 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just stop once we've done the same work as in the past?

Shiny new phones every year, bigger better faster shinier cars, Fancier meals, must have gadgets, keeping a keen eye on the Jones's, better fuller lawn without weeds, that paved driveway you've always wanted, a faster computer, better heating systems, brand name clothing... When needs and wants get all mixed up, there is always more to be done.

just say it man: capitalism creates new needs to justify working you extra hard

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#129

Post by giantg2 »

energy123 wrote: post #49
gambiting wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how not that long ago everyone used to predict that with the increases of productivity worldwide we'll keep reducing our workload to a point where we'll work just few hours a week and remain just as productive. And it seems that this has happened for a select few but everyone else is working more and more just to afford rent and basic necessities.

> And it seems that this has happened for a select few It's happened for anyone that owns housing without a mortgage in a wealthy country. Everyone else has to work full-time to pay their landlord or bank. Given the housing stock is kept artificially low, all remaining money in the average paycheck will necessarily be eaten up by housing. It doesn't really matter how productive the economy is. If shelter is kept scar…

"Given the housing stock is kept artificially low,"

I'm not sure I'd call it artificial. There are rational market forces at play. The real issue is that everyone wants to live in the same places, and the people there already want to preserve their lifestyle and investment.

Re: Greece introduces the six day work week

#130

Post by giantg2 »

unfunco wrote: post #5
giantg2 wrote: post #2

6 days used to be normal generations ago, and still is in many parts of the world. Perhaps we're just in a golden age that's about to end.

…or maybe not? Britain's biggest union demands a four day week: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/21/ftse-100-ret...

And how is the UK economy doing?
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