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Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

sfchronicle.com

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Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#261

Post by plaidfuji »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #250
level1ten wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The type of people who see a "lane ends ahead" and immediately merge, blocking up traffic and wasting a half mile of empty lane. "I'm in my assigned place and I did what I was supposed to!!"

The thing that blocks up traffic at a merge is when people can't get over smoothly. If everyone gets over at the first opportunity, then things go fine. The empty lane isn't wasted, it absorbs brief bursts in traffic that need more time to get over. But even if it was wasted, that wouldn't be a big deal. A 5-mile long section with fewer lanes and a 5.5-mile long section with fewer lanes will have almost the same thro…

In my experience what causes the slowdown are the people who merged too early who then resentfully close the gap in front of them when people try to merge later than them, simultaneously increasing the likelihood that they’ll rear end the car in front of them and making it harder for the people trying to merge properly to do so.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#262

Post by Dylan16807 »

plaidfuji wrote: post #261
Dylan16807 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that blocks up traffic at a merge is when people can't get over smoothly. If everyone gets over at the first opportunity, then things go fine. The empty lane isn't wasted, it absorbs brief bursts in traffic that need more time to get over. But even if it was wasted, that wouldn't be a big deal. A 5-mile long section with fewer lanes and a 5.5-mile long section with fewer lanes will have almost the same thro…

In my experience what causes the slowdown are the people who merged too early who then resentfully close the gap in front of them when people try to merge later than them, simultaneously increasing the likelihood that they’ll rear end the car in front of them and making it harder for the people trying to merge properly to do so.

Doesn't that just move the gap slightly? If anything, a tight squeeze should mean the gap behind them is even bigger than the gap that existed before.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#263

Post by dventimi »

billjings wrote: post #76
dventimi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. It'll be easier to keep the fleet on a cleaning schedule, and won't be left to the whims of individuals.

I have a good friend who's a Lyft driver. According to him, all drivers are rated on cleanliness by passengers; if you're dinged for a weird smell, there are lasting financial consequences (even if it was for reasons outside of your control, e.g. using a Lyft provided rental while repairing from a traffic accident). We'll see how Waymo handles it! It will definitely be Waymo's problem to solve, though.

I haven't used Lyft in awhile but as an Uber rider what I can tell you is, if that company has a similar policy, it hasn't worked for me. The quality and cleanliness of the vehicle, and the quality of the driving, has been vastly inferior for me in San Francisco than Waymo has been.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#264

Post by dventimi »

RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u wrote: post #89
billjings wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a good friend who's a Lyft driver. According to him, all drivers are rated on cleanliness by passengers; if you're dinged for a weird smell, there are lasting financial consequences (even if it was for reasons outside of your control, e.g. using a Lyft provided rental while repairing from a traffic accident). We'll see how Waymo handles it! It will definitely be Waymo's problem to solve, though.

I think the difference is that as an individual driver you have an incentive to keep your car clean, so that Lyft continues to dispatch riders to you. For Waymo the selective pressure is less direct and also spread across their entire fleet. They can accept a level of dirtiness, given some probability that the rider would reject the car x cost of rider requesting a (partial) refund x etc. etc. More cynically, there a…

I don't know how many people there are who won't take care of public property, but whatever it is I doubt it's 1 in 3.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#265

Post by dventimi »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #155
klipt wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the cars have internal cameras they should be able to surcharge riders who trash the cars.

That doesn't cover all the normal cleaning needed just from people being in the cars, on top of environmental stuff (sand, dirt, mud, leaf debris, pollen...) Like others said: the second they have run drivers out, the cars will stop getting cleaned obsessively because you won't have a choice. Same thing that happened when Lyft and Uber when they ran the taxi industry out of business. Same thing that happened when Zip…

> you won't have a choice

I will have a choice. I will choose one of the competitors.

> Same thing that happened when Lyft and Uber when they ran the taxi industry out of business

There's still a taxicab industry in San Francisco. It became better after competing with Lyft and Uber.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#266

Post by xnx »

firloop wrote: post #18
tanvach wrote: post #7

We recently started using Waymo more often: - Quality of Lyft and Uber rides have gone down significantly. - Consistently spacious, clean and quiet cars. You know what you'll get. - AC always works and not up to the whim of the driver. - No chatty driver to disturb our sleeping baby. Negatives: - Rides have usually 10% mark up over Lyft and Uber. - Pick up and drop off tend to be a small walk from requested locations…

A rarely discussed negative to Waymo is that they drive slower than human drivers. Anecdotally they can be 10-25% slower than the rest of traffic, and it's not uncommon to see human drivers do unsafe moves to pass a Waymo.

Waymo has mounting evidence from millions of driven miles that the presence of their vehicles makes the roads overall safer.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#267

Post by dventimi »

Alupis wrote: post #85
dventimi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. It'll be easier to keep the fleet on a cleaning schedule, and won't be left to the whims of individuals.

By this logic public transportation should be the cleanest of them all. But, it is unfortunately far from that.

Yes because a $3 ride on a public bus is exactly like a $23 ride in a Waymo car.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#268

Post by tomp »

worik wrote: post #128
quectophoton wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anecdotally they can be 10-25% slower than the rest of traffic I don't know anything about USA, but my understanding of other humans tells me that "Waymo is 10-25% slower than the rest of traffic" actually means "Waymo drives at the legal speed limit for that location, without surpassing it".

> "Waymo is 10-25% slower than the rest of traffic" actually means "Waymo drives at the legal speed limit for that location... Probably 100% safer too Speed is the most dangerous aspect of motor vehicles

There is approximately 0% chance that the speed limit decreed by faceless bureaucrats is the optimal speed for the current circumstances on a given road.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#269

Post by dventimi »

skywhopper wrote: post #204
dventimi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. It'll be easier to keep the fleet on a cleaning schedule, and won't be left to the whims of individuals.

Just wait until they 1) have a near monopoly and/or 2) decide it’s time to actually make a profit. Because it won’t last either way.

That might be a long wait. There's no particular reason a monopoly need appear in this market. If it does, that will be a matter of public policy at it always is. That would be unfortunate, as it always is, but it would also be larger and different problem that goes well beyond this particular market.

Re: Self-driving Waymos secure final clearance for expansion beyond S.F

#270

Post by dventimi »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #218
tanvach wrote: post #7

We recently started using Waymo more often: - Quality of Lyft and Uber rides have gone down significantly. - Consistently spacious, clean and quiet cars. You know what you'll get. - AC always works and not up to the whim of the driver. - No chatty driver to disturb our sleeping baby. Negatives: - Rides have usually 10% mark up over Lyft and Uber. - Pick up and drop off tend to be a small walk from requested locations…

> - Consistently spacious, clean and quiet cars. You know what you'll get. - AC always works and not up to the whim of the driver. How much of the cars being clean, quiet, and having HVAC working is just because it's new? A few years down the line the cars will be old (until they're replaced) and won't be as clean or quiet or have reliable AC. It will probably become like aircraft where they prioritize maintenance of…

> A few years down the line the cars will be old

Maybe. Then again, maybe not.

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