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Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]

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Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]

#21
Reminds me of the the quote from Albert Einstein: "I very rarely think in words at all. A thought comes, and I may try to express it in words afterwards."

Language is a higher level abstraction for the brain. Sort of like a higher level programming language vs assembly or binary.

Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]

#23

I think it'd be epic if the link of the post was changed to https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07522-w or https://oadoi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07522-w

Both of your links send me to nature, which is paywalled.

That'd be worse then the currently linked PDF, which includes everything.

Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]

#24

There are many concepts in our thought stream without a 'word' or even a simple 'phrase' to label them. A word or a common phrase is coined when a concept is sufficiently common and important enough such that someone comes up with a label to communicate the idea succinctly and the label catches on. We, humanity, have words or common phrases to label the vast majority of significant concepts. However, not every concep…

> * 关系 (Guanxi) (Mandarin): Your network of connections that help you get stuff done in life and business.

I do think in American English at least there is a phrase for this: Your Network. You even used it to explain the word :)

Usually the first association to “your/the network” is social. You have to specify if you mean the technical version with computers.

Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]

#25
post #17

The crux of their argument is that the language faculty and other faculties (math/logic/abstract, theory of mind/social reasoning, spatial/temporal imagination, and other cognitive abilities) all evolved in parallel, so the most plausible explanation is that language is mostly independent of all those other faculties which are activated in distinct neural network areas of the human brain, based on brain scan studies…

If language is no longer part of thought, then sure, breaking down... thought... into many different mechanisms also makes sense (quite a bit of sense actually).

From there, you ask: "What is the fundamental aspect underlying each of these different faculties?"

Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]

#26
post #16

How do you define “thinking”? To me thinking is primary tool of communication between I and “me” and it’s entirely based on sound and language. Can you think without using language? When you have song playing in your head, how is that different from your thoughts? Isn’t talking out loud just act of thinking, the output being connected to mouth? Have you ever tried to repeat mantra in your thought, slow down until com…

To me most communication between I and "me" occurs in symbol arrangements, not sound and language.

This can be annoying: when my wife asks me what I'm thinking about, if I'm thinking about something relatively linguistic (an HN comment, say), it's easy to tell her. Otherwise, I need a fair amount of time and effort to make the consecutive interpretation (and forget about simultaneous!).

Further evidence that my thought is not especially language-mediated: my wife and I share a little over three languages in common; however translating into any of these is about as difficult as any other, suggesting that the original thought is equally "far away" from all of them.

Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]

#27
post #24

There are many concepts in our thought stream without a 'word' or even a simple 'phrase' to label them. A word or a common phrase is coined when a concept is sufficiently common and important enough such that someone comes up with a label to communicate the idea succinctly and the label catches on. We, humanity, have words or common phrases to label the vast majority of significant concepts. However, not every concep…

> * 关系 (Guanxi) (Mandarin): Your network of connections that help you get stuff done in life and business. I do think in American English at least there is a phrase for this: Your Network. You even used it to explain the word :) Usually the first association to “your/the network” is social. You have to specify if you mean the technical version with computers.

The mandarin guangxi encompasses a whole lot more than just your network. That would be considered a very bastardised translation, losing all the extra meanings such as good luck created by having that network, possibilities to fortune, a kind of karma, and more.

Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]

#28
post #24

There are many concepts in our thought stream without a 'word' or even a simple 'phrase' to label them. A word or a common phrase is coined when a concept is sufficiently common and important enough such that someone comes up with a label to communicate the idea succinctly and the label catches on. We, humanity, have words or common phrases to label the vast majority of significant concepts. However, not every concep…

> * 关系 (Guanxi) (Mandarin): Your network of connections that help you get stuff done in life and business. I do think in American English at least there is a phrase for this: Your Network. You even used it to explain the word :) Usually the first association to “your/the network” is social. You have to specify if you mean the technical version with computers.

In American English, in the context of people, "network" typically refers to business contacts.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/network : “To get a job in today's economy, it is important to have a strong network.”

Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]

#29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * 关系 (Guanxi) (Mandarin): Your network of connections that help you get stuff done in life and business. I do think in American English at least there is a phrase for this: Your Network. You even used it to explain the word :) Usually the first association to “your/the network” is social. You have to specify if you mean the technical version with computers.

The mandarin guangxi encompasses a whole lot more than just your network. That would be considered a very bastardised translation, losing all the extra meanings such as good luck created by having that network, possibilities to fortune, a kind of karma, and more.

> all the extra meanings such as good luck created by having that network, possibilities to fortune, a kind of karma, and more.

In your 20s you might think of your network as people who you went to college with. In your 40s your network takes on a meaning much closer to what you have described. I don’t yet know what happens in your 60s.

Re: Language is primarily a tool for communication rather than thought [pdf]

#30
post #24

There are many concepts in our thought stream without a 'word' or even a simple 'phrase' to label them. A word or a common phrase is coined when a concept is sufficiently common and important enough such that someone comes up with a label to communicate the idea succinctly and the label catches on. We, humanity, have words or common phrases to label the vast majority of significant concepts. However, not every concep…

> * 关系 (Guanxi) (Mandarin): Your network of connections that help you get stuff done in life and business. I do think in American English at least there is a phrase for this: Your Network. You even used it to explain the word :) Usually the first association to “your/the network” is social. You have to specify if you mean the technical version with computers.

> * น้ำใจ (Nam-jai) (Thai): Literally "water from the heart". Being very nice and helpful without expecting anything back.

"Charity"

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