How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord • Hacker News Board

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#101

Post by adgar » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 6:36 PM UTC

zefi wrote: post #22

hack_edu wrote: post #7

Again and again, people who use Airbnb to 'hack' the rental market get little sympathy from me when the chickens come to roost. If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel, they wouldn't sign you into a year-long lease. Also, and I know this has been hashed out before on these comment threads but he's grossing $30k a year on the back of his landlord. The landlord has every right to…

"Come on, the guy lives alone in a 3+ bedroom apartment in Brooklyn. We all know he signed that lease specifically to run a pseudo-hotel business under the guise of an Airbnb profile." Categorically not true. Chris is a good friend, and he had a long term roommate until recently. He took on the lease because he knew they could cover rent whether or not the third room got let out. It is an amazing apartment in an awes…

> His listing was great value

Illegal transactions are often great value.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#102

Post by adgar » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 6:38 PM UTC

chrisdannen wrote: post #72

ed209 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If your landlord was interested in running a tenement home/boarding house/hotel" - then he would have to staff it himself too, promote it and take the risk of no bookings. With a tenant he has someone making sure the place is looked after + he has a contracted income for the whole 12 months. By the sound of this place, the landlord could probably do quite well out of airbnb. But in that case, why not just approach t…

Exactly. This restraining order was the first I had heard from my landlord that he didn't want us airbnb'ing. A phone call and I would have stopped. I knew it was too good to be true.

> This restraining order was the first I had heard from my landlord that he didn't want us airbnb'ing.

Read leases before you sign them in the future.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#103

Post by epo » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 6:50 PM UTC

pajmullaney wrote: post #52

btilly wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the article, the landlord is getting into AirBnB. Why would the landlord want a middleman in this case?

It sounds like the OP was actually an excellent host, and that's worth something on AirBnB. The landlord wouldn't necessarily be able to consistently pull in the kind of high-quality guests by himself.

The OP is a parasite, abusing his landlord's resources for gain. Also, if he hasn't declared his 'rental' income for tax purposes then his problems are only just beginning ...

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#104

Post by roguecoder » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 6:51 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #42

The more I think about this and how it impacts me as a landlord, I am starting to see Airbnb as (warning: the following analogy is not perfect) the Napster of lodging. I think they'd better step up and become the iTunes of lodging in this regard, before more news stories like this start creating a rift between landlords and Airbnb.

So is Couchsurfing the bittorrent of lodging?

Sometimes capitalism gets in the way of distributing goods and services. Usually when people try to decide what other people shouldn't and shouldn't do with things they sell to them.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#105

Post by roguecoder » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 6:51 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #42

The more I think about this and how it impacts me as a landlord, I am starting to see Airbnb as (warning: the following analogy is not perfect) the Napster of lodging. I think they'd better step up and become the iTunes of lodging in this regard, before more news stories like this start creating a rift between landlords and Airbnb.

So is Couchsurfing the bittorrent of lodging?

Sometimes capitalism gets in the way of distributing goods and services. Usually when people try to decide what other people shouldn't and shouldn't do with things they sell to them.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#106

Post by jack-r-abbit » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 6:55 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #98

blafro wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not necessarily true. Some people rent out the living room couch as well as the spare bedroom. Besides in the second lessee case, the landlord at least gets to vet the second person.

Vetting only lessens the chance of catastrophic damage from an idiot tenant, though. It does nothing to mitigate wear and tear. That was what my now-masisvely-downvoted point was. The "wear and tear" argument is on pretty shaky ground.

The wear and tear argument was not made along with a vetting argument. Vetting is one issue. Wear and tear is another issue. There is some ground between the perfect tenant and the idiot who burns a place down. There are all those people in the middle that go about their lives and little things happen. But have you ever heard the saying "drive it like its a rental"? People will naturally be slightly more careful with things they own or have a direct responsibility to take care of. The more people you have using a space that are not directly responsible for its care, the more likely those little things will happen. We're not talking about the catastrophic damage. We're talking about things like the extra nicks in the banister caused by someone dragging their suitcase up the stairs. When you have a new person dragging their suitcase up (and then back down) the stairs once a week, the chances for additional nicks goes up. Eventually all those little things start to build up. And it is pretty easy for a one of those rotating guests that caused a little more damage to just move along since its not their apartment building. People who live there and have a responsibility for the place (and coincidentally have been vetted) are more likely to notify the landlord to get it corrected.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#107

Post by nsxwolf » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 7:05 PM UTC

roguecoder wrote: post #104

nsxwolf wrote: post #42

The more I think about this and how it impacts me as a landlord, I am starting to see Airbnb as (warning: the following analogy is not perfect) the Napster of lodging. I think they'd better step up and become the iTunes of lodging in this regard, before more news stories like this start creating a rift between landlords and Airbnb.

So is Couchsurfing the bittorrent of lodging? Sometimes capitalism gets in the way of distributing goods and services. Usually when people try to decide what other people shouldn't and shouldn't do with things they sell to them.

I agree, but unlike the weird ownership issues that come with, say, copyrights and boxed software, this is a case where I quite literally still own something, and I'm letting someone use it for a fee. Laws put all kinds of restrictions on me, but some decisions on how my property is used still stay mine.

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#108

Post by jerf » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 7:10 PM UTC

tgrass wrote: post #96

jerf wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't understand why the amount is important." Because, at the risk of repeating myself, $20,000 isn't "little ways". It is $20,000. We are talking about something important here. Yes, we all make a few holes in the wall or unsanctioned little repairs or something, but we're talking $20,000. It's not "little things". I'm not saying it's automatically "damage" or harm of any kind. In fact it pretty clearly isn't si…

The large amount of profit may inspire attention, but it doesn't correlate with the extent of lease violation (to my mind). The lease likely mentions guests generally, not charging for them. Which would mean CouchSurfing.org is just as problematic - and that the amount of profit is immaterial.

You seem to be continuing to impute arguments to me that I am not making. No, I don't particularly think that AirBNB is especially problematic, I think the entire "genre" of business faces the same problems. None of them are the sort of little issue we don't have to worry about, they're all worth talking about (and, alas, probably litigating and legislating about).

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#109

Post by nostromo » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 7:14 PM UTC

njharman wrote: post #89

nostromo wrote: post #74

If they're throwing the book at you -- throw it right back. Tell your landlord that you're going to find the hotel closest to your apartment and show up with printouts of their newest illegal competitor: your landlord. It sucks to get the government involved with these disputes, but he opened the door.

Why do you imagine landlord would be illegal competitor? Also, petty retaliation against someone exercising their legal right to enforce contract is morally suspect. Bordering on sociopathic.

New York hotels are highly regulated. I'm making the assumption that the landlord doesn't have the right permits (and isn't paying the taxes) to run a hotel.

The point is there are no clean actors here. A landlord running an illegal hotel and a renter that broke their lease. But thanks for calling me a sociopath. ;)

Re: How Airbnb Earned Me $20,000 And A Restraining Order From My Landlord

#110

Post by omonra » Wed, Jun 06, 2012, 7:32 PM UTC

parfe wrote: post #81

chrisdannen wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This restraining order was the first I had heard from my landlord that he didn't want us airbnb'ing. A phone call and I would have stopped. I knew it was too good to be true.

Attached to the order was a complete printout of my Airbnb listing and all my reviews, included as evidence I had violated clauses in my lease. (Some leases, I have since learned, have evolved specific language prohibiting tenants from listing their pads on vacation-rental sites such as Airbnb.) I don't buy your innocence here. I've been leasing houses for ~10 years now during and after college. The leases have alway…

I actually find your belligerent attitude annoying. Is that helpful to note?

OP would be 'abusing' the property if he were running a crack den. I see no problem with tenants doing whatever they want with the property that they are leasing - as long as no damage is done & neighbors are not troubled.